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Old 03-11-2017, 08:14 PM
 
Location: SoCal
13,226 posts, read 6,326,744 times
Reputation: 9839

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Quote:
Originally Posted by MG120 View Post
I am not vilifying anyone. American's are capitalists, that's what we do. You can be conservative and still have compassion for your fellow man. I think the single biggest difference between American's and all those other countries that have UHC is simply this, they believe that health care is a right and we don't.

How do you reconcile the concept that anyone can go into an emergency room and get care without paying for it? Who is paying for that? We are, those of us with insurance. Our insurance premiums are higher because they don't pay so they pass along the costs to those that do. We also pay through taxes subsidizing the poor and the elderly. So, we are paying multiple ways, multiple times, which any fiscal conservative would tell you is stupid.

And when you kick those 20 million American's off of their health care, who is going to end up paying for them anyway? We will, just like we always do. So, if that is the case, then why not have a system that lowers the cost for all? But no, we won't do that, because our government is beholden to the special interest groups like insurance and big pharma.

When the AMA and major hospitals come out against a plan, it might just be bad.

One other point, then I am done, I have told this story before, but will again. This is my experience with the dreaded UHC.

I cannot speak for the experiences of others, but can for myself. While on a trip to Germany to visit family, I got a horrible sinus infection that turned into bronchitis. We called the doctor, who came to the house. WHAT? Why yes, he made a real house call. He examined me, determined what the problem was, wrote me 2 prescriptions and went about his business. We went to the local pharmacy, where I had to pay 4 dollars for both prescriptions and that was that. Oh, the doctor didn’t cost me a dime, and no, I did not have travel medical insurance or did I have to use my insurance. From the time we called him until I had the medicine I needed was just over 3 hours.

But I am lying and this never happens and they actually pay more than we do for health care.
I know relatives who travelled to Italy and England didn't get charge when they were ill. But I think it's the same here for emergency care without insurance. Even today, it's expensive for other European countries to start single healthcare. When they started years ago, it was relatively cheap because the baby boomers were relatively young and healthy. Not anymore.
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Old 03-11-2017, 09:35 PM
 
6,353 posts, read 5,158,773 times
Reputation: 8527
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vision67 View Post
For most people who are still employed in a corporate job, the earliest realistic age to retire is 63.5

You can use Cobra to cover the 1.5 years prior to Medicare at 65.

Funny how all my conservative friends love Medicare for themselves and still hate the idea of universal healthcare for everyone else. Their excuse: "I earned it!"

I guess not everybody is bothered by cognitive dissonance.
Talk about cognitive dissonance, I don't suppose you see the difference between collecting a benefit from a program you paid into for 45 years and collecting a benefit from a program you haven't paid into at all?

Gimme gimme gimme.
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Old 03-11-2017, 10:01 PM
 
Location: Haiku
4,061 posts, read 2,572,689 times
Reputation: 5990
Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry Siegel View Post
Talk about cognitive dissonance, I don't suppose you see the difference between collecting a benefit from a program you paid into for 45 years and collecting a benefit from a program you haven't paid into at all?

Gimme gimme gimme.
What???

I totally get what Vision is saying. UHC does not mean free health care any more than Medicare is free. In fact a lot of people think Medicare should become UHC. Ultimately we all pay for whatever healthcare we get - we either pay with taxes or premiums, but the $3.2 trillion bill due every year gets paid by all Americans one way or another.

The only difference between Medicare and UHC is Medicare payments are banked so that your retirement payments are very low. With UHC you are paying as you use it. No banking.

The difference between UHC and ACA or AHCA is that it is paid with taxes rather than premiums.
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Old 03-11-2017, 10:43 PM
 
Location: Houston
22,516 posts, read 11,593,506 times
Reputation: 9078
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vision67 View Post
For most people who are still employed in a corporate job, the earliest realistic age to retire is 63.5

You can use Cobra to cover the 1.5 years prior to Medicare at 65.

Funny how all my conservative friends love Medicare for themselves and still hate the idea of universal healthcare for everyone else. Their excuse: "I earned it!"

I guess not everybody is bothered by cognitive dissonance.
By the time I collect Medicare I will have paid into it for 47 years.
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Old 03-11-2017, 10:47 PM
 
3,460 posts, read 2,199,014 times
Reputation: 6130
Quote:
Originally Posted by Serious Conversation View Post
I honestly doubt much will be done.
What is going to happen after all the smoke and mirrors, is that ACA (ObamaCare) is going to be re-branded as TrumpCare followed by Trump claiming he improved what was "a disaster". 22 million people are being covered by ACA and there is no good reason to change it except for political reasons. Insurance costs have been on the rise for years before ACA was even in the works, so no plan is going to greatly lower the costs of insurance or health care.
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Old 03-11-2017, 11:28 PM
 
Location: Wisconsin
21,538 posts, read 44,002,416 times
Reputation: 15140
Unless premiums and deductibles come down substantially, the tax-credits under the current proposal will be less than the subsidies under the ACA - especially for those who are older.

Right now, a 62 y/o with an annual income of $30,000, silver ACA plan premium is $9,730/year, subsidy is $7,245, net cost $2,485 per year

v. Ryan plan assuming same cost of $9,730, less $4,000 tax credit, net cost $3,730 per year.

http://kff.org/interactive/subsidy-c...hild-tobacco=0

And, that doesn't adjust for the insurers' ability to charge much higher rates based on age.
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Old 03-12-2017, 12:47 AM
 
1,258 posts, read 1,585,402 times
Reputation: 1393
Quote:
Originally Posted by NewbieHere View Post
But I think it's the same here for emergency care without insurance
Tell this to my friend, who invited his mother from overseas to visit, and didn't buy her travel insurance. She needed an emergency surgery and he got a 10K+ bill.
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Old 03-12-2017, 12:57 AM
 
Location: We_tside PNW (Columbia Gorge) / CO / SA TX / Thailand
22,561 posts, read 39,944,045 times
Reputation: 23694
Quote:
Originally Posted by OhioToCO View Post
Tell this to my friend, who invited his mother from overseas to visit, and didn't buy her travel insurance. She needed an emergency surgery and he got a 10K+ bill.
Our hosts tonight in Irvine, CA just paid $12,000 for an ambulance transport ONLY (non-emergency / trauma) Bed ridden spouse just got sick in the night and needed to go in to hospital.

USA healthcare

A USA friend in Philippines was in scooter accident. Broken leg, Transport into hospital, 4 days in hospital, leg cast / setting... transport home $800 total.

I used hospital in Thailand <$100 and very excellent and FAST care.
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Old 03-12-2017, 06:24 AM
 
Location: CT
3,461 posts, read 1,855,571 times
Reputation: 4614
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ariadne22 View Post
Unless premiums and deductibles come down substantially, the tax-credits under the current proposal will be less than the subsidies under the ACA - especially for those who are older.

Right now, a 62 y/o with an annual income of $30,000, silver ACA plan premium is $9,730/year, subsidy is $7,245, net cost $2,485 per year

v. Ryan plan assuming same cost of $9,730, less $4,000 tax credit, net cost $3,730 per year.

Health Insurance Marketplace Calculator | The Henry J. Kaiser Family Foundation

And, that doesn't adjust for the insurers' ability to charge much higher rates based on age.
Sorry, but that doesn't add up, I think you misunderstand, the situation is worse than you think. Taxes on $30K/yr are less than $4K. I think they're proposing a tax credit, meaning the taxes you would have paid on $4K which would be only $600. Washington doesn't get it, they're dealing with the symptom, health insurance cost, not the problem of health care costs.
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Old 03-12-2017, 06:30 AM
 
Location: Central Mexico and Central Florida
7,100 posts, read 3,460,546 times
Reputation: 10163
Mexico...I let a stomach problem go on too long (ended up it was an eColi infection). My neighbor called her doctor; he came to my home....twice, to give me shots. Sent his nurse to see me when he had his office hours (she also brought prescriptions he wrote) ....twice over 3 days. As I got stronger I went to his office once. Total bill was 550 pesos; this was when exchange rate was 15:1, so about 37 US dollars.

Current exchange rate is almost 20:1, btw.
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