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Old 11-21-2018, 07:59 PM
 
1,214 posts, read 440,120 times
Reputation: 3759

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Quote:
Originally Posted by PamelaIamela View Post
Nah!
Expenditures have little to do with tax receipts.
We'll fund it the old-fashioned way - the FED will create money for the Treasury to write checks.

See how easy that was?

Mircea:
Not unless Congress authorizes it.


Right.
And they never do that, do they?

Wait.
They've done it every year there's a deficit and the debt limit is reached, don't they?
And 'borrowing' from the Fed needs no authorization unless the debt limit is reached.
Ah, now I feel better.

Last edited by PamelaIamela; 11-21-2018 at 08:14 PM..
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Old 11-22-2018, 06:43 AM
 
Location: SLC
467 posts, read 428,407 times
Reputation: 829
I wonder why people buy the social security gap line. There have been years where the program has made surplus which the politicians have used to cover budget deficits in other areas. So, now that the program is projected to have deficits - the answer is not to cut the social security benefits, but to look at other revenues and spending. The sacred cow of the defense spending should be looked at seriously.

The foreign wars we cannot pass up cost money - a lot! Based upon this study by Brown University -
https://watson.brown.edu/costsofwar/costs/economic, we have spent 4.9 trillion on the Iraq, Afghanistan wars alone. And, the interest costs could total over 7.9 trillion by 2053 - roughly the time over which we are so concerned about the social security funding gaps. I know it is water under the bridge but it’s not like we have or are likely to stop digging this hole.

Then - we have the tax cuts. If it were such a big funding problem (and it is) - how come the politicians of every stripe can’t find a tax cut that they wouldn’t pass up? The same Paul Ryan who was so concerned about the future of the ‘entitlement programs’ (that we are paying for) was the speaker of the House to pass the latest tax cut. [For full disclaimer, I am one of the beficiaries of the tax cut and social security is not a huge part of my retirement plan.]

So, we need to wise up - and hold the politicians accountable for this situation, and not take benefits cuts as the easy answer.
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Old 11-22-2018, 06:52 AM
 
71,779 posts, read 71,896,917 times
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myth ..... no social security money has ever been put in general funds and used to fill gaps . that is false . excess can only buy treasuries ... those treasuries pay the fund interest and principal on a regular basis . just like any bond issuer what the gov't does with the money they borrow is up to them .
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Old 11-22-2018, 07:11 AM
 
Location: SLC
467 posts, read 428,407 times
Reputation: 829
The government funds its debt by floating the treasuries. Social security (a branch of the US government) buys the treasuries. The treasuries pay interest and principal, which creates more deficits to bring us back the start of the cycle. And, it is the growing debt that’s the reason for the proposed cuts. So, what makes it a myth?

There is no such thing as social security shortfall. The shortfall is in the US government revenues and obligations (of which social security is one). So, my points above are quite valid.
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Old 11-22-2018, 07:13 AM
 
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no it is not the same thing as the bull you see that the gov't is taking ss and putting it in general funds .

the gov't is not allowed to buy equities with the money since then the gov't would own private business , that is communism , so they can only loan it out for interest
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Old 11-22-2018, 07:41 AM
 
Location: SLC
467 posts, read 428,407 times
Reputation: 829
Mathjak107 -

I have a lot of respect for you, so will refrain from getting further into an argument. I am not referring to any bull - except that coming from the politicians who claim to be fiscal conservatives and very good at totaling the numbers when it comes to things like social security but take off that hat in pushing irresponsible tax cuts or funding irresponsible wars. I maintain that the deficits are at the US government level and not at the program level - and as such, the conversation about them needs to be at a broader level as well. At the end of the day, the US government spends money on so many things, including the social spending. And, if there is a deficit (wider than the Grand Canyon), discussion context should simply not be about how to cut the social spending - while increasing the defense spending and cutting revenues at the same time.

Last edited by kavm; 11-22-2018 at 08:14 AM..
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Old 11-23-2018, 12:45 AM
 
1,214 posts, read 440,120 times
Reputation: 3759
Quote:
Originally Posted by mathjak107 View Post
myth ..... no social security money has ever been put in general funds and used to fill gaps . that is false . excess can only buy treasuries ... those treasuries pay the fund interest and principal on a regular basis . just like any bond issuer what the gov't does with the money they borrow is up to them .
Damn, Mathjak. You know damn well that money is fungible.
So the excess SS inflows (that don't exist anymore) converted to NON-NEGOTIABLE bonds purchased by the FED. And were spent as part of the general budget.

You know that SS is pay-go, so don't say otherwise, please.
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Old 11-23-2018, 01:51 AM
 
71,779 posts, read 71,896,917 times
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every bond in the world has the issuer free to do as they please with the money . the same applies to the gov't . in fact the special treasuries that socil security buys pay higher interest then the treasuries you , me , pension funds and anyone else buys . it is the only thing by law the excess funds can invest in .

any excess can't sit idle and any excess can't go in to stocks so it is what it is .
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Old 11-23-2018, 05:59 AM
 
2,446 posts, read 2,077,630 times
Reputation: 5706
I think this topic has been exhausted and probably is ready for a well deserved retirement.
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Old 11-23-2018, 06:38 AM
 
71,779 posts, read 71,896,917 times
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one of the few times i agree with you
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