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This topic has come up on the forum earlier and I always follow the discussion with interest, and a guilty feeling as we have neither (will nor trust)!
We finally took action to address it, found a good lawyer locally, provided her the necessary information and had good 1/2 hour discussion with her. We are positive on the lawyer. The question of whether to create a will or a trust now is what we need to decide upon.
Our situation:
Both a bit shy of 60.
Substantial assets (say 5M) but mostly financial. Condo is only real estate / non-financial instrument we own.
No previous marriages, children. 100% goes to the surviving spouse. When both of us pass - the estate gets divided 50-50 into our respective families (all abroad - Canada, Europe, Asia). We realize that the surviving spouse could change that decision. It is not a concern as we trust each other completely.
No family relying on the inheritance. No inheritance contention anticipated. The speed of probate etc. not a factor when thinking of the transfer of assets beyond the surviving spouse.
The driver for possibly preferring a trust is that we have no children or family in the United States. One or both of us could end up requiring third-party financial (and other) guardianship if we live long enough. The lawyer seemed to suggest that a trust facilitates incapacity planning and transfer of financial management to a professional trustee better than a financial POA. The incapacity planning is a topic that resonates with us, though we are some distance away from it (hopefully).
Costs: The lawyer charges the following:
$750 total for creating a will, financial POA and medical directive for each of us
$4500 to create the trust and do the work to move the current set of assets (brokerage, mutual funds, condo, etc.) into the trust.
Other considerations: We have not fully finalized whether we will retire in our current location/state. It is likely but we could also end up retiring elsewhere. We also have professional opportunities in another state that might mature and lead us to move for a period. It should not affect the decision but thought I'd mention it. The lawyer did mention that trusts travel better than wills.
We need to decide about how we want to proceed. I wanted to get your thoughts and advice on it.
My husband and I in the same boat (but at a higher age and lower net worth). No kids, no obligations to exes and no assets other than investments and our primary residence. One of our heirs lives in Germany, which complicates things a bit. We have not yet made a will. I'll be interested in reading whatever advice you get here.
When you say you gave your attorney "the necessary information," I would like to know exactly what this means. How specific does the information need to be (i.e. just the name of the financial institution and title of account, or do they also need account numbers?) Before I see an attorney, I want to have all the information ready to go in order to keep the fees as low as possible.
My husband and I in the same boat (but at a higher age and lower net worth). No kids, no obligations to exes and no assets other than investments and our primary residence. One of our heirs lives in Germany, which complicates things a bit. We have not yet made a will. I'll be interested in reading whatever advice you get here.
When you say you gave your attorney "the necessary information," I would like to know exactly what this means. How specific does the information need to be (i.e. just the name of the financial institution and title of account, or do they also need account numbers?) Before I see an attorney, I want to have all the information ready to go in order to keep the fees as low as possible.
Thank you! Our secondary beneficiaries live in Canada, India, Ireland and Germany! That did not seem to be a big issue to the lawyer - but she warned us that regardless of will or trust, getting assets to heirs overseas will take longer. It wasn't terribly material to us as no one is/should be relying on receiving an inheritance from us.
In terms of the necessary information, it will depend upon the lawyer you choose. Ours had an intake form that we filled out. It took some time to fill the form out, but thought it was not a bad thing. If someone is going to handle your assets, it might be a good idea for them to have a clue. In case of a trust, the lawyer will need the account numbers to move the accounts to the trust. Of course, one may elect to do that oneself but it is definitely more convenient to have the lawyer handle that aspect.
I will be happy to share what we do, but we are not very knowledgeable. That's where the much more experienced participants of this forum come in.
I should note that the costs on the will+POA+advanced directive were a package that we confirmed beforehand and seemed OK. The trust costs are more variable - and the lawyer mentioned that the inclusion of the transfer of assets into the trust is a component of the fee. A simple creation of the trust (only) would be cheaper, but more hassle to get off the ground if we take on the transfer part ourselves. So, we are not considering that - unless there is a strong recommend on the forum to do that.
We got our Trust for $1700, spent a good 3 hours with the lawyer. Went back after he had all the paper work and signed. We contacted all of our banks, brokers, insurance, etc. ourselves. They sent us forms to fill out to transfer the assets into the Trust. Why pay the lawyer to do that ? Everything we own (except the cars) is in the Trust. We laid out the order of trustees, gave power of attorney, power of medical decisions, and distribution of assets. We plan on making some minor changes and will use the lawyer to do that. Minimal cost.
If you can name beneficiaries on your financial accounts then I would not get trust. The POA would be a very good idea if you could not manage your assets.
I think I would talk to several more attorneys. Find one that practices Elder law and trusts. I just had a trust done which was complicated and costs a lot lot less and took several months to do.
I look at a trust for when you want to manage the money after you die - beneficiaries have little or no control over the money. If the trust is to give the beneficiaries the money then skip the trust. (To avoid probate be sure to name beneficiaries on your accounts.)
Nodpete - Thank you! We did not know how easy/difficult that was. We can ask the lawyer the fee for just creating the trust. For us, it is mainly the financial companies - the Vanguard, Fidelity, eTrade, TIAA, etc.
The challenge with us is that not having a family in the US, we are reliant on third party on decisions if both of us are dead/incapacitated.
If you can name beneficiaries on your financial accounts then I would not get trust. The POA would be a very good idea if you could not manage your assets.
I think I would talk to several more attorneys. Find one that practices Elder law and trusts. I just had a trust done which was complicated and costs a lot lot less and took several months to do.
I look at a trust for when you want to manage the money after you die - beneficiaries have little or no control over the money. If the trust is to give the beneficiaries the money then skip the trust.
Thank you! Looks like we need to look at the price point involved.
The only aspect of the trust that interests us is the ease / benefit with respect to incapacity planning. Like I mentioned, we do not have any family in the US. One of us has a family history of dementia. So, as we age - we will need to have a plan involving professional third-party trusty to manage our financial affairs, if and when we are incapacitated. So, that's the part that appeals to us. If both of us are dead - we want the monies to go to the nominated beneficiaries - no strings attached.
Thank you! Looks like we need to look at the price point involved.
The only aspect of the trust that interests us is the ease / benefit with respect to incapacity planning. Like I mentioned, we do not have any family in the US. One of us has a family history of dementia. So, as we age - we will need to have a plan involving professional third-party trusty to manage our financial affairs, if and when we are incapacitated. So, that's the part that appeals to us. If both of us are dead - we want the monies to go to the nominated beneficiaries - no strings attached.
My trust does not handle my incapacity (it is written so it could if all else failed) but this should be done with a power of attorney. Seems like you will have a problem finding a person to act as your "attorney" so maybe you can see if corporate trustees will handle the POA. Some Attornies will also do this.
If you go with a trust and put your home in it be sure you do not lose any current state benefits. If the trust is going to be in the same state as your attorney you should not have a problem.
Your attorney could be correct in that the trust is the best way to sold no one to act as and executor. I would ask the other Attornies and call a few trust companies to see if they would do the POA.
Ask the attorney for suggestions on who should be the trustee co and POA. This might help. Identify this person first. Before you finalize the trust have the new trustee review. They probably have language they want to protect themselves.
Did the attorney discuss income taxes on the trust? Is the trust revocable or irrevocable when formed? At first death does it change? (You do not want the trust to be subject to a separate income tax when set up.)
Do not remember did you include a health directive or living will in the documents you mentioned? You need this for medical care. It would probably be your spouse and then someone else as backup. Also your doctors can be a backup.
We got our Trust for $1700, spent a good 3 hours with the lawyer. Went back after he had all the paper work and signed. We contacted all of our banks, brokers, insurance, etc. ourselves. They sent us forms to fill out to transfer the assets into the Trust. Why pay the lawyer to do that ? Everything we own (except the cars) is in the Trust. We laid out the order of trustees, gave power of attorney, power of medical decisions, and distribution of assets. We plan on making some minor changes and will use the lawyer to do that. Minimal cost.
Lawyers clean up on the backs of the unknowing.
They love to say "I'll be at the courthouse tomorrow, I can file that for you if you want".
And "feel free to call if you have any questions."
Then the client gets the bill and they were billed for everything they thought the lawyer was offering gratis.
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