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Location: We_tside PNW (Columbia Gorge) / CO / SA TX / Thailand
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Depends on the state, for probate and inheritance taxes (possible in $5m range). Even USA is slated to roll back to lower inheritance threshold, when current tax relief program ages out.
Our state made it necessary to do a trust. (We did in our 30's due to kids)
Restated the trust 2 hrs ago. Minor rewrite. ~$1000 each trust. Our first was very complicated, with lots of kid details, and charitable remainder, perpetually support for each other, and other commitments. Keep it simple, while meeting the needs of each other, and optimization of taxes and distributions.
My trust does not handle my incapacity (it is written so it could if all else failed) but this should be done with a power of attorney. Seems like you will have a problem finding a person to act as your "attorney" so maybe you can see if corporate trustees will handle the POA. Some Attornies will also do this.
If you go with a trust and put your home in it be sure you do not lose any current state benefits. If the trust is going to be in the same state as your attorney you should not have a problem.
Your attorney could be correct in that the trust is the best way to sold no one to act as and executor. I would ask the other Attornies and call a few trust companies to see if they would do the POA.
Ask the attorney for suggestions on who should be the trustee co and POA. This might help. Identify this person first. Before you finalize the trust have the new trustee review. They probably have language they want to protect themselves.
Did the attorney discuss income taxes on the trust? Is the trust revocable or irrevocable when formed? At first death does it change? (You do not want the trust to be subject to a separate income tax when set up.)
Do not remember did you include a health directive or living will in the documents you mentioned? You need this for medical care. It would probably be your spouse and then someone else as backup. Also your doctors can be a backup.
In my experience, we didn't need the medical POA to be done by an attorney, we used an online one, had it notarized. We used 5 wishes for my dad, hub and MIL when they had cancer. It spells everything out in your own words as to medical care. I may have a copy on my computer if the OP wants it.
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Originally Posted by jonesg
Lawyers clean up on the backs of the unknowing.
They love to say "I'll be at the courthouse tomorrow, I can file that for you if you want".
And "feel free to call if you have any questions."
Then the client gets the bill and they were billed for everything they thought the lawyer was offering gratis.
You're not kidding. They charge to read/reply to every email or text too
Quote:
Originally Posted by twinkletwinkle22
Your trust may not move to a new state without checking what the new states laws are.
We have trusts, wills, POA, health directives done in FL 6 years ago.
We just moved to NC and our FL trust atty said she could not update our trust and to find an atty in NC. That's something I didn't know
Our trust is still valid in NC is my understanding but only as it now stands, no changes.
The reason wills are fairly cheap to create is attorney expects to get call to act as will's executor at death and that's where they make their money. Trusts charge their money up front.
If a couple has no children the simplest thing to do is always (always, always) make sure your financial accounts (banks, brokerages, home title) have spouse designated as joint owner or beneficiary. The surviving spouse inherits with no probate, as beneficiary they send death certificate, as joint owner probably the same (may differ state to state).
Why spend thousands to set up a trust? In our case (no kids) I want my family to get some money at my spouses death if I die first. There is no other way to do this except by trust, even then may not happen due to circumstances.
Widows/widowers remarry and a future spouse stands to inherit everything (nothing for my nieces/nephews or siblings) without a trust. I think a future spouse should inherit something but not everything. This pandemic makes us think about mortality being closer than we thought. We are healthy but so were many who died.
edit to add: I think it is very important to tell your heirs about your trust, perhaps send them a copy of it. If they don't know they are named in the trust and what entity to contact (bank/brokerage) they will only know what is in the will (that is public access). In my case my heirs may be waiting several years to receive trust money (after death of surviving spouse). This way at least one of my heirs might be aware they are due an inheritance and speak up. My grandmother told us exactly what was in her will and who her local attorney was, her main asset was her home. If we didn't know what was in her will the house would've been sold ASAP, not what she specified but if we didn't know we would've been in the dark. Most people don't know enough to request a copy of will from courthouse, I didn't know this was possible until much later.
You bring up excellent points. I was always told by my sons great aunt that he was inheriting everything because she had no kids, none of her nephews/niece or great nephew/nieces did anything for her. She helped me raise my son. She passed in 2013; my son wasn't contacted. I believe my ex sister in law did everything, sold her house. I found it strange my son got nothing since he was named beneficiary on everything she had according to what she always told me.
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Originally Posted by ysr_racer
And if you've got crap you want someone to have (guns, jewelry, figurines, cars...) consider giving it to them while you're alive. Trust me it makes things much easier.
I was very close to my elderly neighbor. My parents came to the US in the late 50's, I never had a grandfather until my neighbor. When we lived across the street we shoveled snow, mowed his lawn, whatever he needed. He fell, needed somewhere to go to recover so we took him in for 3 weeks, his niece didn't want him. He passed away the next year. I was supposed to get his Avon car decanter collection, I also wanted a picture of my neighbor and his lady friend who passed 2 years before him. I was very close to her too. In the end, his niece was supposed to leave my stuff with another neighbor but didn't. She also unfriended me on FB. I doubt the decanters were worth anything, I wanted them because they were special to my neighbor. His niece probably threw them out.
Similar happened to my dads stuff. Some sold, some thrown out.
Doesn't a trust protect you against lawsuits where you might be liable (ie accidents) - aren't the funds/home protected?
not in in a revocable trust
" Revocable living trusts don't protect your assets from people with legal claims against you. That's because although the trust is a legal entity, for legal purposes you're treated as the owner of the trust assets."
except for avoiding probate or attaching instructions or restrictions on the money to heirs , there really is no advantage to a revocable trust and in most states there can be a disadvantage when it comes to protecting the house if medicaid long term care is needed.
every additional document you add beyond a will is a potential source for something to be found wrong in it . we have beneficiaries on all our accounts and need no trust at all.
our financial accounts can all be passed via beneficiaries and our possessions are simply going to the kids . if there was anything specifically someone wanted we put it on a list earmarked for them ...no probate needed at all.
Last edited by mathjak107; 04-22-2020 at 05:09 AM..
not in in a revocable trust
" Revocable living trusts don't protect your assets from people with legal claims against you. That's because although the trust is a legal entity, for legal purposes you're treated as the owner of the trust assets."
except for avoiding probate or attaching instructions or restrictions on the money to heirs , there really is no advantage to a revocable trust and in most states there can be a disadvantage when it comes to protecting the house if medicaid long term care is needed.
every additional document you add beyond a will is a potential source for something to be found wrong in it . we have beneficiaries on all our accounts and need no trust at all.
our financial accounts can all be passed via beneficiaries and our possessions are simply going to the kids . if there was anything specifically someone wanted we put it on a list earmarked for them ...no probate needed at all.
I have a will, revocable trust, and living will - all involving a single heir. The same heir is named as beneficiary in all my annuities and Roth, and TOD/POD for bank accounts. While addressing the TOD/POD designation at the bank some time ago, the bank representative told me "you know TOD/POD on your account doesn't mean anything, right? It would still have to go through the probate, and the whole thing", to which I asked then what was the purpose of having TOD/POD on the account... to which she said (verbatim) "oh, we use that just to put customers at ease". I asked her what the heck she meant by that, but she changed the subject.
I have a will, revocable trust, and living will - all involving a single heir. The same heir is named as beneficiary in all my annuities and Roth, and TOD/POD for bank accounts. While addressing the TOD/POD designation at the bank some time ago, the bank representative told me "you know TOD/POD on your account doesn't mean anything, right? It would still have to go through the probate, and the whole thing", to which I asked then what was the purpose of having TOD/POD on the account... to which she said (verbatim) "oh, we use that just to put customers at ease". I asked her what the heck ahe meant by that, but she changed the subject.
many years ago and i mean many years go new york did not except tod accounts from non banks like say fidelity who had offices in new york .. tods were only for banks at one time in ny ... if a brokerage had a presence in ny they were not accepted . ... but today that rule has been fixed as well as gone for many years if not decades .
all beneficiaries get their money from financial institutions now , 100% confirmed .there is no probate on them . whoever said that is wrong .
Last edited by mathjak107; 04-22-2020 at 05:41 AM..
many years ago and i mean many years go new york did not except tod accounts from non banks like say fidelity who had offices in new york .. tods were only for banks at one time in ny ... if a brokerage had a presence in ny they were not accepted . ... but today that rule has been fixed as well as gone for many years if not decades .
all beneficiaries get their money from financial institutions now , 100% confirmed .there is no probate on them . whoever said that is wrong .
I would assume what you say is correct, but this person (with whom I dealt in her capacity of a notary at a branch of a major national bank in Boston, MA) stated that TOD/POD designation on a bank account meant nothing and was "just to put customers at ease" (whatever that meant :-). I guess maybe it meant TOD/POD could be sometimes disputed (maybe based upon wording of a will).
Btw, TOD can be used in some states (not NY or MA, but yes CA) to transfer property directly. You file a TOD (eg, at San Francisco City Hall, for $95), and the title of your property automatically gets transferred to your heir when you die, nothing else to do about it.
Yes , real estate can not be transferred on a tod in ny ....but since at this stage we own none everything we have is on beneficiary accounts .....
We still have a disclaimer trust which we needed. When ny only had a million dollars as an excluded amount as far as inheriting tax free ...that gave us the ability to activate an irrevocable trust up to 9 months after the death of a spouse and pass two times as much tax free .....with ny the same as the federal we don’t need it anymore
Good advice on TOD, especially in states that allow you to file a TOD deed with the local register of deeds. Trusts (usually revocable trusts) were pushed quite a bit in the 90's, to avoid federal estate taxes. I think the federal estate tax is now something like 10 or 11 million, so that isn't an issue for most people. I'm convinced that any attorney that pushes a trust in this day and age (sans those with estates in the aforementioned 10-11 M range), are trying to get paid on both ends -- e.g. when they draft the complex paperwork, and then again when the heirs inherit and don't understand the complex paperwork.
In most cases, if accounts and even real estate (if states allow it), with TOD, you wouldn't even need or have use for a will, but it's highly recommended in case something is missed as far as getting beneficiary information order. The most important thing is to review that annually, and make sure your heirs know where your paperwork is.
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