Helping a Friend (continued) (spouses, federal, states, retired)

[Threestep2]

Originally Posted by otterhere

I agree. I'm still interested in the situation and its outcome. And if I get wind that she's applying for Medicaid and possibly not disclosing House A, I'll probably do something about it.

What do you plan to "do about it"?

[otterhere]

Originally Posted by Threestep2

What do you plan to "do about it"?

Blow the whistle by calling the Medicaid fraud hotline, obviously. What else?

[TheShadow]

I think a lot of people who are older and possibly less educated, and maybe their spouse did all the financial stuff, are going to have issues like this at some point. I can't imagine myself not knowing whose name is on the deed, or not knowing whose name is on the mortgage, to my home. My MIL was like this. FIL took care of all the bills and banking, and she didn't even know how, when, or to whom to pay the bills when he passed away. She was over 80, lived alone then, and we were living hours away. We had to take over all her paperwork tasks, bills, taxes, and banking for the rest of her life. There was no teaching her at that point. She was stubborn and already had mild cognitive issues. It will be difficult for your friend to handle this if she's not willing to confront the kids and make the effort to research the deed and go through the process of getting it transferred. As for the mortgage on house 2, it may well be that neither she nor child 2 will even qualify to carry the mortgage based upon their income, somaybe that is best left alone for now.

This would be hard for me if she was my friend as I'd have a hard time watching child 1 take advantage and her just being so passive about it. I've never been good at holding my tongue even though I know it's wrong to offer unsolicited advice.

[old fed]

'They "can't afford to make payments" (not true). It's "not a good time to take out a mortgage, interest rates are too high," and "if we have to pay for house, we might move somewhere else and buy another one.'

so they can afford to make payments is what I'm reading.

[emmmcubed]

Originally Posted by otterhere

Blow the whistle by calling the Medicaid fraud hotline, obviously. What else?

You're going to drop a dime on your friend? Yeeeesh.

I mean, sure, don't aid and abet, and don't lie about it if you're asked later, but . . . damn.

Are you going to tell her first?

Aaaaand this whole saga reinforces my preference for the "mind your own business" approach

[otterhere]

Child 2, although learning disabled, has a steady job and can afford to pay the mortgage on House B and IS now paying it.

Child 1 can also well afford to pay for House 1 by getting his own mortgage or paying my friend monthly (although I wouldn't want to have to nag them for it every month only to likely not get it, which she probably would).

Rather than let my friend collect illicit Medicaid money and possibly go to jail for it, yes, I would call the hotline as soon as she applied and just point out that this applicant owns a second house, explaining that she doesn't seem to understand that she has to claim both. Medicaid would then explain to her that she needs to either move into it or sell it to qualify.

[considerforamoment]

Originally Posted by TheShadow

I think a lot of people who are older and possibly less educated, and maybe their spouse did all the financial stuff, are going to have issues like this at some point. I can't imagine myself not knowing whose name is on the deed, or not knowing whose name is on the mortgage, to my home. My MIL was like this. FIL took care of all the bills and banking, and she didn't even know how, when, or to whom to pay the bills when he passed away. She was over 80, lived alone then, and we were living hours away. We had to take over all her paperwork tasks, bills, taxes, and banking for the rest of her life. There was no teaching her at that point. She was stubborn and already had mild cognitive issues. It will be difficult for your friend to handle this if she's not willing to confront the kids and make the effort to research the deed and go through the process of getting it transferred. As for the mortgage on house 2, it may well be that neither she nor child 2 will even qualify to carry the mortgage based upon their income, somaybe that is best left alone for now.

This would be hard for me if she was my friend as I'd have a hard time watching child 1 take advantage and her just being so passive about it. I've never been good at holding my tongue even though I know it's wrong to offer unsolicited advice.

The bolded was what I was wondering about in a thread I created. What would have happened, OP, if you had not taken on the tasks for your MIL? Really curious about what happens to people once they can't do basic things to take care of themselves financially.

[sera]

Caring, Wise Posters who have responded to OP. She has replied, in my opinion, Yes, but.... when someone replies "Yes, but", they're not ready to receive the answer.

As most difficult as it may/can be, you can still be there, not offer solutions. One can only offer a hand up IF asked. Sometimes, someone will reach out when Everyone has left them. To me, that's hitting bottom.

You may love them, listen, pray But you cannot fix them !

[L00k4ward]

Originally Posted by otterhere

I just outlined who owns what... I can "punch in" the PVA right from my own laptop to determine that...

My friend has NO money. No savings. Lives on just SS. Nothing left over after paying the monthly bills (which, again, includes paying for Child 1's cell phone and House A's property taxes; until he sickened and died, her husband was even mowing House A's lawn).

Well, I guess the mother technically has money if she covers the payments of the wealthier child’s phone?

No matter what the right thing to do - if your friend doesn’t want or can’t do it - it is a moot point.

Proverbial “lead the horse to water, but can’t make it drink”

Is your friend in the early throes of dementia?

You seem forceful and she may not react well to your best ideas on the emotional level.

Maybe if you find other motivations for her to correct this situation?

For example:
- now your concern is her personal finances, including cheating Medicaid and she may not care about that as she is used to surviving
- your second concern is rightfully the vulnerability of the disable son

What I suggest that you put an emphasis on the disabled son’s future - as after her death he will be screwed.

The second concern should be her grandchildren who may become heartless themselves as they grow up and observe their grandmother’s situation.

What I would do in this situation:
- put the house with the mortgage for sale after she obtains the deed.

-pay off mortgage with the proceeds.

-put the rest of the money if any into a special needs trust (SNT- look it up) for her disabled child.

- start an eviction process against 1st child or simply move in the house A with her 2 son.
It will cause her 1 son to move out.

- meantime, or at the same time start a process of obtaining an apartment in public housing for her disabled 2nd son, where he will only pay 1/3 of his income as rent.
Having rent instead of owning a house is better for disabled - so they can’t be tricked by unsavory people who could exploit them by moving with them or in some other ways cheating them out of their assets

This will ensure that he will never be homeless or robbed by his brother.

The SNT will be covering 2nd son’s needs: extra medical needs, clothing, groceries, appliances replacement, furniture, mattresses replacements, transportation and eventually - long term care if needed?

It may happen that he won’t be able to work? He still could be fine with the trust?
You could be a trustee to disperse it or any other reliable person when the mother is gone.

Then it is up to her: if she wants/can afford to pay taxes/upkeep for house A - she could live there while observing the situation with her disabled son living on his own in his own place, keeping her eye on him and teaching him to be on his own.

If the 1st son cuts her contact with the grandchildren - she should threaten him with cutting him out of her will completely (just make sure she doesn’t omit him and grandchildren by naming them in the will and leaving them $10 each - so he can’t sue )

Her leverage to see grandchildren will be this:

As that special needs trust if not spent - could go to him as a second beneficiary or to charity/nursing home/religious organization which may take care of her second son + at least half of house A proceeds after her death - which she should split or not?

Half of the house A proceeds may go to the same special needs trust for care of 2nd son, half could go to the first son or not in case he is denying her access to her grandchildren

If the 1st is a donkey - then she should move all the proceeds to SNT for her 2nd son.

Ideally: I would sell both houses while she is alive to fund the SNT for her 2nd son, perhaps renting with him.

Then the 1st son won’t be able to screw up his brother and still should be nicer to his mother in hopes to become a beneficiary when the SNT have to dissolve after the death of his brother.
Otherwise the remaining money go to charity

Hopefully, the mother could live another 5 years (Medicaid look back period) after /if she decides to sell both houses and fund the SNT for her 2nd son. There could be a different rule if she sends money to SNF ; it may not be even counted by the Medicaid if the beneficiaries of the trust are non-profits?

What is her monthly income? Does she even qualify for Medicaid if she disposes her extra house?

I am a bit fuzzy and don’t have time to look it up: it could be a regular trust for 2nd son or SNT - the 2nd son is better off with SNT, but there could be special inheritance rules after the death of 2nd son;

Regular trust may benefit 1st son better - he may still inherit or her grandchildren could for sure, but it may go against her with the Medicaid and against her 2nd son as he may not be entitled to certain public benefits?

[otterhere]

I like your vision! Moving to a senior apartment (they could actually live there together; the disabled child doesn't drive, so my friend is his ride to and from work) is something I hadn't thought of, what with all the houses in this family. There is one nearby. I've been urging her to teach the son to use the city bus system for when she also kicks the bucket, but that's not happening, either. I think she likes the routine and having something to do every day.

Monthly income is $1k month/SS. Out of that she pays the utilities for House B (where she lives with Child 2) plus taxes on both houses and Child 1's cell phone bill. She may also pay Child 2's (it may be a family plan); not sure. They also buy their own groceries - not very economically. After a one-month cycle since the husband died, she had nothing left over from her check. The life insurance was used to pay for the funeral and medical bills (they were reportedly just "rounded down" or written off to whatever she could afford; they had to be in the tens of thousands, so I don't understand that) plus some splurges on crazy expensive Christmas gifts for the two spoiled boys and the grandkids (yes, they're also already spoiled), so that's all gone, too.

A further complication: House B is already being referred to as Child 2's house, although it's still in the deceased father's name and is now technically owned by the mother (I guess?), and he won't want to move; he loves it and is already decluttering it, decorating it to his own taste, and planning a garden. It's his world, and his mother just lives there. I don't see him ever voluntarily leaving it.