Sac residents move here from Phoenix? (Sacramento, Bakersfield: real estate, house, neighborhood)

[Valley Boy]

Originally Posted by Chimérique

Thats cool thanks for the response. But, I was referring to "boots on the ground", ok, I get it, You mean, literally, how it feels walking around, the vibrancy on the streets, in the neighborhoods, hanging out at large public spaces like Capital Park and Old Sacramento, how it feels, the vibrancy compared to other cities, correct?

I travel a lot and I've to been to many cities/metros across the nation and I'm always comparing them with Sacto. Sacramento has so much unrealized potential, but there lies this systemic, dogmatic, governmental, closed and dismissive leadership-society that doesn't even realize how closed minded they are. Or, maybe they DO know how closed-minded they are, but they don't care, and will not let other contrary voices to be heard. Admittedly, I am part of that tribe, but I wish we could mix it up a little and allow for other diverse and truly more open-minded voices and leadership to prevail. I am sure we could get a lot more done.

Sacramento has come a long way, and yes it is way more vibrant and interesting than Fresno in many ways.

I think Sacramento is in a tier all its own, not quite a Portland, Austin, San Diego, or Phoenix; not even a Kansas City or Orlando in certain metrics, but Sacramento is actually quite unique, and it could be so much more if our leaders and its citizens allowed it.

You know I'm only a Sacramento critic when talking to its leaders and influencers.

Problem with Sac is that it is in the Central Valley. And the Central Valley is filled with simple-minded country bumpkins, who don't really know much. It will take a significant amount of Bay/LA transplants, with expectations they want met, in order for Sac to make it to that next level.

I mean, Sac has no major aquarium, not a single dinosaur exhibit, no major theme parks, no fortune 500 companies, etc. It will always be a 3rd rate town until this type of stuff changes.

It's not really just the people with money, it's the voters too. They elected the dumbest mother ****ers into office, who can't get diddly squat done.

Thank god we had Mayor Johnson. Can you imagine what a dump downtown would be right now if we did not have the arena and development from the Arena all around Doco and K street? It used to look like the Tenderloin out there!

[Chimérique]

Originally Posted by Valley Boy

Problem with Sac is that it is in the Central Valley. And the Central Valley is filled with simple-minded country bumpkins, who don't really know much. It will take a significant amount of Bay/LA transplants, with expectations they want met, in order for Sac to make it to that next level.

I mean, Sac has no major aquarium, not a single dinosaur exhibit, no major theme parks, no fortune 500 companies, etc. It will always be a 3rd rate town until this type of stuff changes.

It's not really just the people with money, it's the voters too. They elected the dumbest mother ****ers into office, who can't get diddly squat done.

Thank god we had Mayor Johnson. Can you imagine what a dump downtown would be right now if we did not have the arena and development from the Arena all around Doco and K street? It used to look like the Tenderloin out there!

I used to agree with this sentiment about Sacramento. But it is not completely accurate, and Sacramento has always been so much more than the "bumpkins" you talk about. They were neither "simple-minded" nor "country".

Every place and city has "simple-minded" folks, and a lot of them...including Phoenix, LA, SF, and NYC.

Yes, I miss Mayor Johnson.

Yes, Sacramento is in the Central Valley and there is a lot to be proud of being part of the Central Valley, but the whole Sacramento metro is connected to outer bay regions, the delta, with the Sierra foothills. It's a great location, way better, than Phoenix.

[shelato]

Sacramento is at a weird juncture. It is desirable enough to be able to attract rather high skilled employees from the Bay Area to relocate here, but not really yet the employers. Oracle and HP Enterprise left the Bay Area for Texas, not Sacramento and I really don't know why they bypassed us.

One thought was airline connections. Houston probably does offer more direct flights for HP Enterprise to worksites in Asia and Europe and I suspect that is also true for Austin and Oracle. But I don't really know how airlines decide to offer direct flights. Is that purely an economic decision for the airlines involved or does lobbying by airports matter?

How much does thickness of the labor market matter in specific industries? Dell was already in Austin. How much of an impact was that getting Oracle confident to move to Austin.?

[Chimérique]

Originally Posted by shelato

Sacramento is at a weird juncture. It is desirable enough to be able to attract rather high skilled employees from the Bay Area to relocate here, but not really yet the employers. Oracle and HP Enterprise left the Bay Area for Texas, not Sacramento and I really don't know why they bypassed us.

One thought was airline connections. Houston probably does offer more direct flights for HP Enterprise to worksites in Asia and Europe and I suspect that is also true for Austin and Oracle. But I don't really know how airlines decide to offer direct flights. Is that purely an economic decision for the airlines involved or does lobbying by airports matter?

How much does thickness of the labor market matter in specific industries? Dell was already in Austin. How much of an impact was that getting Oracle confident to move to Austin.?

Yep, that's partly why I created that Sacramento Airport thread.

The health insurance giant Anthem-Centene(headquartered in St. Louis) picked Sacramento for their West Coast headquarters specifically because Sacramento International has non-stop direct flights to St. Louis.

Well, way back in the late eighties or early 90's, Intel put roots down in Sacramento-Folsom and also in Phoenix. Early this year, Intel announced it is expanding again in Phoenix, partly due to chip shortages, a 20 billion dollar facility, 3,000 high paying tech jobs. Sacramento is missing out again.

Our leaders and too many of us don't care and don't want tech here, or they make it incredibly hard for tech to come.

Back in the early 80's when HP employed 6,000+ in Sacto-Roseville, Austin had next to zero tech, besides Dell. What happened Sacramento? How much were our leaders partly to blame for not moving us into high tech "heaven" We also lost two major Air Force Bases that employed a ton of civilian and non-civilian jobs. How and why did we let that happen, all those operations went to Texas in the mid nighties.

[Chimérique]

To answer your last post, burg:

Portland is great but there is a lot more other cities to learn from as well....such as Phoenix, Austin, Orlando, San Antonio, Kansas City, Cincy, Pittsburgh....all cities close in size and scale to Sacramento. You can learn a lot by visiting other cities and putting "boots on the ground" in them.

Here is another fabulous urban park over a freeway: Dallas's Klyde Warren Park.

I agree Phoenix is no where near "first tier" in terms of culture, urbanity, density, vibrancy; however, I agree with Valley Boy in that Phoenix is first tier because of economic growth and job creation.

[PhoenixSomeday]

It's funny to see the comments about Phoenix being a big city that's made it like the other big cities, and all that. When, in the Phoenix forum when the subject comes up, they say stuff like Phoenix is a second rate city and it's not world class and blah blah blah because it doesn't have X number of Ferrari dealers, or the museums don't have such-and-such a work from random-renaissance-artist, or that it doesn't have XYZ amenity, or this-and-that recreational facility, or that some particular imagined-tier-of-importantness of companies doesn't want to build a non-blue-collar facility there, or because some super-de-duper important event has never been held in Phoenix, or the downtown skyline doesn't have some building that someone perceives as drop dead gorgeous, etc. Perspective and grass-is-greener, I guess.

[shelato]

Originally Posted by PhoenixSomeday

It's funny to see the comments about Phoenix being a big city that's made it like the other big cities, and all that. When, in the Phoenix forum when the subject comes up, they say stuff like Phoenix is a second rate city and it's not world class and blah blah blah because it doesn't have X number of Ferrari dealers, or the museums don't have such-and-such a work from random-renaissance-artist, or that it doesn't have XYZ amenity, or this-and-that recreational facility, or that some particular imagined-tier-of-importantness of companies doesn't want to build a non-blue-collar facility there, or because some super-de-duper important event has never been held in Phoenix, or the downtown skyline doesn't have some building that someone perceives as drop dead gorgeous, etc. Perspective and grass-is-greener, I guess.

Remember that on the regional forums, you always create two camps of people. You have the super boosters who describe their town in hyperbolic terms and refuse to acknowledge any problems, if you disagree and acknowledge problems in the community, they see that you are attacking them, that reaction in turn draws in the trolls, who like provoking the super boosters.

[wburg]

The grass is never greener in Phoenix.

[PhoenixSomeday]

I dunno, we get some nice, soft, thick, pretty green gas overseeded in the winter here. Of course, it all dies throughout April and we are back to that hard, rough Bermuda stuff.

[Chimérique]

Originally Posted by PhoenixSomeday

I dunno, we get some nice, soft, thick, pretty green gas overseeded in the winter here. Of course, it all dies throughout April and we are back to that hard, rough Bermuda stuff.

Compared to the Sacramento Valley, and the hills surrounding it, there is very little natural grasses that grow in the Sonoran desert as there is so little natural fertile soil. The lack of natural large and abundant deciduous trees is also why there is so little natural fertile soil in the Sonoran desert coupled with the lack of numerous year long running streams, rivers and creeks.

But if these severe droughts in NorCal continue who knows we could get up looking like Arizona...although that would take 50 years of continuous severe drought.