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(broken record alert)
1300 sf historic bungalow=2000 sf modern suburban tract home (more efficient use of space)
With small children, I wouldn't want to live in midtown. In midtown, the homes are older and you are stuck with home built in an era without modern building codes. You have to worry about lead paint and in those homes asbestos was used fairly regularly as building material. Moreover the electrical systems in the older homes generally aren't that up to date. There aren't enough plugs in each room and the wiring again tends to be coated in asbestos.
Small children area always sticking stuff in there mouths and the stuff they can stick in there mouth in these older homes is much worse for them.
With modern homes, you have much more storage and you have the benefit of modern building codes. The modern homes are much better insulated and they have much bigger garages. Basements have problems with Radon, but garages generally don't.
Lastly 1300 sqft isn't 2000 sqft. With one kid, 1300 sqft might work, but with a large family, no way.
Last edited by edwardius; 10-14-2008 at 05:53 PM..
Reason: fix a grammar error
Thanks Mossy - but did you like where you lived on the East Coast? See, I don't like where I am in Seattle, it's quite the experience. I'm living a Seattle life many people (from Seattle City Data) dream about
Sacramento and Seattle's cost of living are about the same, so I don't expect any shock from Sac.
And I make into the 6 figures too.
My closest friends are still in Sacramento. When I go shopping for Spring Clothes, I fly to Sac and shop with them. When my son has play dates WE GO TO SACRAMENTO! Okay my son has other friends up here - but at 7 year's old he's not close to any.
People keep to themselves up here (Goggle: The Seattle Freeze)
So I have some friends but nothing that will stand time. Well, one, but she'd be friends with me if I lived in tim buk two
Location: Big Island- Hawaii, AK, WA where the whales are!
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Get out of Seattle if you don't like it - you will just find yourself in pain for years wishing for the sun... I know know now you will sell at a cheaper than what you thought. But the vitams supplements tanning booths will never make a differnece... this is a quote from 30yrs in WA and keep trying .......... Love it on a sunny day - can deal with it on many rainy days - but it is hard to deal with ............ then again anywhere I go dry I get a bloody nose and dry sinus that hurts........... make yourself happy - an area won't do it but Puget Sound if you don't love it will depress you
With small children, I wouldn't want to live in midtown. In midtown, the homes are older and you are stuck with home built in an era without modern building codes. You have to worry about lead paint and in those homes asbestos was used fairly regularly as building material. Moreover the electrical systems in the older homes generally aren't that up to date. There aren't enough plugs in each room and the wiring again tends to be coated in asbestos.
Small children area always sticking stuff in there mouths and the stuff they can stick in there mouth in these older homes is much worse for them.
With modern homes, you have much more storage and you have the benefit of modern building codes. The modern homes are much better insulated and they have much bigger garages. Basements have problems with Radon, but garages generally don't.
Lastly 1300 sqft isn't 2000 sqft. With one kid, 1300 sqft might work, but with a large family, no way.
The homes were also built with clear-heart redwood that will still be strong when the cheap OSB and tree-farm pine used in modern homes is falling to pieces. Most were built before asbestos was commonly used as a building material, and while some have outdated wiring, many have been updated over the years, and it's a pretty cheap upgrade (it cost me less than $3000 to rewire a whole house.) The fact that so many of these homes are still standing a century later is a testament to the sturdiness of the materials and the craftsmanship of their builders.
Lead paint? Paint over it! It gets encapsulated. It's not hard to mitigate.
Old homes aren't hard to insulate either--they were built when energy costs were much higher, so efficient heating and cooling works well with the existing design. And fewer square feet means fewer square feet to heat and cool.
Radon isn't a worry in Sacramento, where most basements are "Delta basements" that are actually above ground (the ground floor is seven feet off the ground.) It's a nominal worry in particularly well-sealed, full basements, but even then it's not a risk if the house is properly ventilated. And even if you're scared stiff of radon, full basements make a terrific place to store large quantities of stuff.
And yes, a 1300 sf old home is as good as a 2000 sf new home, because there is far less wasted space. Bedrooms and bathrooms are smaller, because they don't need to be big. There is more outside unconditioned space, like porches, that are part of the living space not counted in the square footage. They're more efficiently designed, you literally get more bang for your buck.
There are three reasons why people feel like they have to have bigger homes: because we have more stuff, because we're fatter than we used to be, and because we're so terrified for our children's safety we think we need giant backyards instead of letting little Artifacto play out in front or at the park down the street. #1 is easy: OWN LESS CRAP. It's cheaper, your life is simpler and suddenly your other crap doesn't need quite such a big, expensive container. #2 is easy: Live in a place where you can walk to most things, and you get more exercise. #3 is easy: Sit on the porch and watch your kid playing, or go with them to the park.
If all else fails, keep in mind that there are also new homes being built downtown. Part of building new homes downtown is that they really can't be built like suburban tract homes: like historic homes, they have small lots and efficient use of space, but they're also built with modern building codes and modern wiring (and modern OSB and styrofoam and farmed pine.) So one is not solely limited to purchasing an old house in the central city.
The homes were also built with clear-heart redwood that will still be strong when the cheap OSB and tree-farm pine used in modern homes is falling to pieces. Most were built before asbestos was commonly used as a building material, and while some have outdated wiring, many have been updated over the years, and it's a pretty cheap upgrade (it cost me less than $3000 to rewire a whole house.) The fact that so many of these homes are still standing a century later is a testament to the sturdiness of the materials and the craftsmanship of their builders.
Lead paint? Paint over it! It gets encapsulated. It's not hard to mitigate.
Old homes aren't hard to insulate either--they were built when energy costs were much higher, so efficient heating and cooling works well with the existing design. And fewer square feet means fewer square feet to heat and cool.
Radon isn't a worry in Sacramento, where most basements are "Delta basements" that are actually above ground (the ground floor is seven feet off the ground.) It's a nominal worry in particularly well-sealed, full basements, but even then it's not a risk if the house is properly ventilated. And even if you're scared stiff of radon, full basements make a terrific place to store large quantities of stuff.
And yes, a 1300 sf old home is as good as a 2000 sf new home, because there is far less wasted space. Bedrooms and bathrooms are smaller, because they don't need to be big. There is more outside unconditioned space, like porches, that are part of the living space not counted in the square footage. They're more efficiently designed, you literally get more bang for your buck.
There are three reasons why people feel like they have to have bigger homes: because we have more stuff, because we're fatter than we used to be, and because we're so terrified for our children's safety we think we need giant backyards instead of letting little Artifacto play out in front or at the park down the street. #1 is easy: OWN LESS CRAP. It's cheaper, your life is simpler and suddenly your other crap doesn't need quite such a big, expensive container. #2 is easy: Live in a place where you can walk to most things, and you get more exercise. #3 is easy: Sit on the porch and watch your kid playing, or go with them to the park.
If all else fails, keep in mind that there are also new homes being built downtown. Part of building new homes downtown is that they really can't be built like suburban tract homes: like historic homes, they have small lots and efficient use of space, but they're also built with modern building codes and modern wiring (and modern OSB and styrofoam and farmed pine.) So one is not solely limited to purchasing an old house in the central city.
I totally like and agree with your post! I wished I would have talked to you before we bought our house.
I totally like and agree with your post! I wished I would have talked to you before we bought our house.
Put it this way, Mossy...I grew up in Citrus Heights. I moved to Midtown as soon as I could.
It's really not that bad a place: just a bit short on the excitement front. Keep your eyes open for the opportunity to move to a neighborhood you like, in the meantime, Citrus Heights is an okay place to be from.
Lead paint? Paint over it! It gets encapsulated. It's not hard to mitigate.
First there are NO safe levels of lead. This is the reason lead was completely removed from gasoline. But because of the size of the existing housing stock covered with lead paint, the feds were forced to make compromises in setting standards for homes. But these standards are inadequate.
So even if you comply with the standards that the Feds have established, you still see impairment in brain function. The effects are more pronounced in children because their brains are still developing and there bodies are just much smaller.
Houses breathe, they expand and contract all the time and that is what creates this lead dust. Painting over it, isn't going to stop that. Moreover in houses with kids, they are going to run around, and chip the paint.
But that isn't the only source of lead in the older homes. In homes built before the thirties, they regularly used lead pipes, later they replaced the lead pipe with copper pipe, but they still used lead based materials as piping compounds. This is especially a problem on the hot water main because you get more dissolved minerals in hot water and these minerals help to leach the lead into the water.
One of the better explanations for the disparity in test scores between white and black children seems to the levels of lead in the children. Black children are more likely to live in older homes, they are more likely to live in homes where lead is in the paint and in the pipes. In older homes, they even are finding lead in the soil because over time it flakes off the homes and during the 40's and 50's paint was 50% lead by weight.
I like older homes, I think they are pretty. But they were built in era when people just didn't realise the dangers of the materials they were using. In older homes, they use asbestos all over the place. Its in the tiles, its in the wiring, its used outdoors in the siding. At the time, they considered it a wonder product. Now we know better.
Interesting discussion, like a few of you we have historically based our decisions concerning where to buy a home based upon our kids (in the past, they are now grown and on their own).
Living in the suburbs and buying homes more recently built have a lot of advantages, such as brighter homes, more living space and modern conveniences. There is a lot to be said for older, smaller homes too, in that they tend to have more character and mature trees surrounding the property. However, you also generally have other tradeoffs such as fewer kids in the area, lack of a rear yard (frequently the garage is out back in older homes, and more repairs. We repeatedly chose suburban living, and having the backyard and better schools for the kids was certainly worth the personal tradeoffs.
To the OP, I would say that you probably need to try and change your own attitude, and find out things that you like in Citrus Heights and get involved in some local activities. Perhaps feeling like you actually belong there, instead of occupying a home, might make you feel more comfortable in the long run.
Its an interesting discussion. I grew up in a house with popcorn ceilings and I know that stuff is supposed to have asbestos in it. But I hadn't given as much thought to lead in the pipes idea.
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