The New Condo Tower on Broadway (San Antonio, Austin: fit in, apartment complexes, rent)

[wCat]

Originally Posted by L3XVS

There has been no condo/tower development in SA since the Patterson, until now. Again, it all comes back to economics and Austin has a larger base of people with incomes to support such growth, not to mention a more developed downtown and more attractions near these towers than just a Central Market. I mean, was that really the main draw to these places (outside the fact that it's in AHISD), that they were close to a Central Market?

You are clearly over your head with just about everything you stated here. There are quite a few new condo/tower developments downtown....lofts and renovations. If I had the energy and desire to prove you incorrect, I'd list them all. But that really is a waste of energy.

One very important aspect you're forgetting is the growing number of baby boomers becoming empty nesters. The ready to retire and live some group....enjoy life and not be a slave to yard work, upkeep and the "Jones".

They are downsizing in space, but not in amenities. The slight drag in the market here might effect sales somewhat....and that's just being realistic...but it's not doomsday...hardly.

Add to that the number of international business travelers from Mexico that choose to have second homes here....also free of maintenance and upkeep. It just makes good sense for SAtown.

Continued revitalization along the river, Southtown, SoFlo and the river north expansion will also see new residents that are out growing the "family friendly" subdivisions. Nothing wrong with them....just the changing needs of a family unit.

All of it is responding to the "demand and supply"!

[guerosincero]

The last I heard, and it was coming from the sales staff, so take it for what it's worth, is that they had sold 32 units of 90+, but it was my impression that the top two floors had been sold, consisting of four penthouse layouts at 3.5M a piece. (And the view from there is as advertised)

So that is 14M on the top two floors, and 28 more units sold among the lower 18 floors. Who knows? Maybe that is enough to make it feasible to finish out and move folks in. That is certainly the way they are seeming to go about their business, and I have a hard time believing that, given all they went through to get to this point, that they would just chuck the project at this point. Hell, Red could do a barrel role in one of his jets and probably get enough out of the seat cushions to finish out a floor or two.

It seemed from the get go that instead of trying to sell a hundred percent of units at a hundred percent of true market value that they were trying to sell 75 percent at 125 percent true market value, which makes some sense given that the folks who are moving in those units are going to be pretty particular. So why not have 25 percent fewer folks you have to please at move in?

[wCat]

Originally Posted by guerosincero

That is certainly the way they are seeming to go about their business, and I have a hard time believing that, given all they went through to get to this point, that they would just chuck the project at this point.

Based on what? your speculation of imagined sales or lack of? Unless you're intimately involved in the sales and financing of this project, your conjecture is illogical.

[TexHwyMan]

Originally Posted by guerosincero

Hell, Red could do a barrel role in one of his jets and probably get enough out of the seat cushions to finish out a floor or two.

That's pretty funny.

[L3XVS]

I apologize for the misunderstanding, wCat. What I meant was that there has been no condo/tower development in the '09/'12 area since the Patterson. I wasn't talking about downtown.

[Montirob]

Originally Posted by L3XVS

I apologize for the misunderstanding, wCat. What I meant was that there has been no condo/tower development in the '09/'12 area since the Patterson. I wasn't talking about downtown.

One reason there has not been any tower development in Alamo Heights is that the city of Alamo Heights does not want towers, which is completely their right. For example, the new retirement tower at Incarnate Word (part of the Univ. is in AH, part in SA) had to go through many iterations, including lowering its height in order to satisfy AH. According to the Express News, when the Patterson was mentioned, someone (don't know if it was a resident or a council member) said, "don't go there."

That said, there has been, and continues to be a significant amount of low-rise condo/townhome construction in Alamo Heights.

[guerosincero]

Originally Posted by wCat

Based on what? your speculation of imagined sales or lack of? Unless you're intimately involved in the sales and financing of this project, your conjecture is illogical.

whoa! not sure how i deserved such a terse response, but i'll try this again. i premised my entire post on the fact (i.e., fact, not conjecture/opinion/speculation) that i was told by the sales staff that they had sold 32 out of 90 some-odd units. now, they could be completely lying to my face about that statistic, but that is what they told me and my wife. if that is true (which is admittedly a big "if") then i don't think i am off-base at all in the opinion that the project will be completed.

you may recall that there was a huge amount of controversy in getting this project approved for construction at 20 floors in the first place on the hallowed grounds of earl abel's, as opposed to a much shorter structure that would fit within the RIO overlay parameters. red mccombs and others in favor of the project put themselves out front on the issue in getting it approved, claiming it needed to be 20 stories. if memory serves, red saw it as some kind of crowning achievement in san antonio and a centerpiece of his collaboration with koontz.

folks can argue whether it was a good thing or a bad thing; it doesn't really matter to the question of whether it gets finished or not. my conjecture (as illogical as it may sound to you) is that i have a hard time believing that red or anyone associated with any of his enterprises would simply close up shop on the project with a 1/3 of the units sold and say to everyone involved "just kidding!"

that would be more than illogical, it could seriously hurt business down the road. were it the case that red was drowning in red ink, then perhaps he would have no choice but to chuck it, but that doesn't appear to be the case. to the contrary, there was a huge article in the sabj two or so issues ago where they refuted rumors that broadway's abortion was imminent.

[wCat]

Originally Posted by guerosincero

whoa! not sure how i deserved such a terse response, but i'll try this again. i premised my entire post on the fact (i.e., fact, not conjecture/opinion/speculation) that i was told by the sales staff that they had sold 32 out of 90 some-odd units. now, they could be completely lying to my face about that statistic, but that is what they told me and my wife. if that is true (which is admittedly a big "if") then i don't think i am off-base at all in the opinion that the project will be completed.

you may recall that there was a huge amount of controversy in getting this project approved for construction at 20 floors in the first place on the hallowed grounds of earl abel's, as opposed to a much shorter structure that would fit within the RIO overlay parameters. red mccombs and others in favor of the project put themselves out front on the issue in getting it approved, claiming it needed to be 20 stories. if memory serves, red saw it as some kind of crowning achievement in san antonio and a centerpiece of his collaboration with koontz.

folks can argue whether it was a good thing or a bad thing; it doesn't really matter to the question of whether it gets finished or not. my conjecture (as illogical as it may sound to you) is that i have a hard time believing that red or anyone associated with any of his enterprises would simply close up shop on the project with a 1/3 of the units sold and say to everyone involved "just kidding!"

that would be more than illogical, it could seriously hurt business down the road. were it the case that red was drowning in red ink, then perhaps he would have no choice but to chuck it, but that doesn't appear to be the case. to the contrary, there was a huge article in the sabj two or so issues ago where they refuted rumors that broadway's abortion was imminent.

My BAD! sorry....serioiusly! I misread your post and somehow thought you were suggesting they close up shop at this point. It seems we agree that would be "illogical".

[TMIgrad]

I can't imagine my parents would consider living downtown. Living in downtown Austin- maybe, Uptown in Dallas- maybe. San Antonio has a LONG way to go before full time residents (like my parents) will live there. I am sure they want to stay close the the 'hood because of friends, family, church, beauty parlor, grocery store, museums, zoo, and restaurants. I think they looked at Vidora and Alterra or something like that. My dad said the neighborhood is way too ROUGH and there are train tracks right behind it. They will probably buy townhome, or high rise near the country club.

[cr1039]

Originally Posted by TMIgrad

I can't imagine my parents would consider living downtown. Living in downtown Austin- maybe, Uptown in Dallas- maybe. San Antonio has a LONG way to go before full time residents (like my parents) will live there. I am sure they want to stay close the the 'hood because of friends, family, church, beauty parlor, grocery store, museums, zoo, and restaurants. I think they looked at Vidora and Alterra or something like that. My dad said the neighborhood is way too ROUGH and there are train tracks right behind it. They will probably buy townhome, or high rise near the country club.

I agree, or the older crowd will go with active senior living with a cafeteria, in house entertainment, transportation and an activities coordinator. NOT a retirement home...

I do not see any empty nesters at the age of 60 wanting to do tower living...the people in that demographic that I know want a room for an office and a room for grandkids to stay over Perhaps a couple at 60 who lived in Chicago or NYC their whole life would transition well, but I don't see that going on for around here.

The people I can see moving into the broadway location would be nearing 30, have had a modest apartment until now and are making over 100 grand and want to upgrade - but not get a house in the suburbs.

That is just my opinion based on friends preferences, family and my own.

Although, I was just as skeptical about this broadway project considering the mess of condos or whatever that are now a shell and all spray painted - around the corner from SAMA...also - what is going on with the property around the corner from the market place, infront of that park?