How realistic (or unrealistic) is my plan to move from Long Island to Bay Area? (Oakland: 2015, renting)

[04kL4nD]

Originally Posted by Chuck5000

Yes, O4kl4nd, this poster has no idea when he is wrong, which is often, and who to trust for advice. Creates his own reality, as if merely having the appropriate skill set is enough.

For anyone else reading this, this is a great thread to understand the obstacles to coming in to the tech economy here in the Bay Area. It's definitely do-able, but it's a game to be played, like any other business, and social connections are extremely important. Ignore any BS about meritocracy.

THIS. Employers aren't just looking for skills. They're also looking for specific characteristics and personality traits, perhaps more now than ever since talent is so easily drawn to the Bay Area. Most skills aren't inherently difficult to learn, but cultural norms, behaviors, values, attitudes, beliefs take a while to acquire. Given the OPs defensive, dismissive, know-it-all attitude, he's likely to turn off a lot of employers who are looking for more of a prototypical match. I wonder why he hasn't had much success landing an awesome gig in NYC...

[WizardOfRadical]

Dude who cares Op, do what yoy want. You are going to anyways. If you got a job lined up or can lower your expectations, why not?

I have charmed my way into every job I have had, no experience in any industry. Legal, government, forklift driving, courier, ticket sales(corporate) for an NBA team, etc. If you got what it takes to meet the bare minimum you just gotta make that human connection. I've only been turned down once and they called me back a week later. Just try until you land something you can do, until you find something you like.

Oh and 250k is more like the downpaymet you will need to get alone on your current income.

And yes, you will get a lot of psuedo lifestyle gurus, who think they know it all. That's pretty much part of bay area culture.

[robinlmorris]

Clearly the OP doesn't want to listen to good advice, but I don't get all this "you have to know people" or you have to be a "specialist" to get a tech job out here. I think that is BS.
You need two thing:
- something to get your resume past the dumb recruiters (this can be a degree/school, a connection, or a previous job)
- you must be smart/able to code.

That is it... It is a employee market right now... companies are desperate. They don't give a crap if you don't know their language/tech... you just have to meet the above 2 requirements.
04kL4nD you make it sound like it is 2002 where there were 100s of applicants for every job and companies could reject you for stupid things. It is not that way right now.... there are dozens of jobs for every good coder. Sadly I see companies lowering the bar more and more because they can't find good people.

To the OP... if you are serious and smart enough, go to coding school out here and rent for a while. My company has hired good programmers out of app academy and dev boot camp for well over 100k a year to start. 50k is a crappy salary even in long island, so if you do have skills, you should expect/want more money than that. My one BIL is a teacher in LI and makes a lot more than 50k. My other BIL is a mechanic there and makes almost that much.

[04kL4nD]

Originally Posted by robinlmorris

Clearly the OP doesn't want to listen to good advice, but I don't get all this "you have to know people" or you have to be a "specialist" to get a tech job out here. I think that is BS.
You need two thing:
- something to get your resume past the dumb recruiters (this can be a degree/school, a connection, or a previous job)
- you must be smart/able to code.

That is it... It is a employee market right now... companies are desperate. They don't give a crap if you don't know their language/tech... you just have to meet the above 2 requirements.
04kL4nD you make it sound like it is 2002 where there were 100s of applicants for every job and companies could reject you for stupid things. It is not that way right now.... there are dozens of jobs for every good coder. Sadly I see companies lowering the bar more and more because they can't find good people.

To the OP... if you are serious and smart enough, go to coding school out here and rent for a while. My company has hired good programmers out of app academy and dev boot camp for well over 100k a year to start. 50k is a crappy salary even in long island, so if you do have skills, you should expect/want more money than that. My one BIL is a teacher in LI and makes a lot more than 50k. My other BIL is a mechanic there and makes almost that much.

If all the OP is looking for is some bare bones tech job, then yeah, it shouldn't be too hard to find. A lucrative, upwardly mobile career in tech that pays mega bucks is quite a different story. Are you seriously trying to argue otherwise?

[robinlmorris]

Originally Posted by 04kL4nD

If all the OP is looking for is some bare bones tech job, then yeah, it shouldn't be too hard to find. A lucrative, upwardly mobile career in tech that pays mega bucks is quite a different story. Are you seriously trying to argue otherwise?

It is unclear what the OP is really looking for since he seems to want to work at startups but has IT skills instead of the software skills that are what startups want.

Yes, I am saying that right now all you need to get a "lucrative, upwardly mobile career in tech" in silicon valley that pays very well is the 2 thing in my post (something to get your resume past recruiters, able to code). You and jade408 make it seem like you have to be a specialist with a certain personality and connections. I think that is misleading to anyone reading this forum as companies lately are so desperate for programmers, that is simply not true.

[Chuck5000]

robinlmorris, I disagree with your opinion, although I share your advice of local coding school. In my experience, and I know a few entrepreneurs, you must know the right languages, be a cultural, personality, or chemistry fit. Your situation sounds strange to me, honestly. I bet the hiring standards are higher than you thought - were you directly part of the hiring process?

So "desperate for coders" is an exaggeration. I worked recently at a startup, well funded, and we had developer openings that lasted for quite a while, because while the need was truly immedate, they wanted the right candidate. They were not willing to take anyone who could code. I know that this is also true from my entrepreneur friends.

Why? Because having the wrong team member can set you back and cost you time and money, which is crucial when deadlines and runway are an issue. Vetting and interviewing is a long process too, for this very reason. It is not remotely the same as working in an established, profitable company.

And relationships are the best proxy for getting past the concern for fit given runway, etc. That's why companies here give good referral bonuses. BTW, the OP indicated that he did want to get in on this career-track startup world, and would start off with his current skill base, and transition over.

But sure, let him come over and try. Given his situation and personality right now, he has no idea what he's in for. He can go to Quora or Reddit and ask a very engineer-heavy audience all of the same questions; the answers will be the same.

[likealady]

Originally Posted by snaaaaake

May be you are just really bad at what you do so you do need network and "connections" to land a job. I can find work without connections, although I don't mind making them.

I'm just going to chime in with my 2 cents here. I'm not in tech, but many startups hire people in my field.

Bay Area job field is hyper competitive. Now I haven't made a huge amount of connections, as I'm not a skilled networker, but do not underestimate other people. People here are like hungry wolves, man. First thing they ask is what you do/where you work. Everyone's always looking for a way in/something better. It's a lot harder to get a job out here than some people make it seem. Yeah sure, there might be plenty of postings, but employers here are super picky and will write you off if you don't make that positive gut reaction within the first 30 seconds.

IT people are a dime a dozen. But hey, maybe you're a lucky person or have extraordinary skills. If you have the chance to transfer though, take it. When I moved out here I was making more than you and had a lot more money saved up. Even then I struggled to find something affordable to rent.

People here are just trying to be realistic with you (and that's what you asked for).

[snaaaaake]

Originally Posted by 04kL4nD

I wonder why he hasn't had much success landing an awesome gig in NYC...

I have never looked for work in NYC because I never felt the need to, and I always knew I will be moving out at some point in the future.

Originally Posted by Chuck5000

BTW, the OP indicated that he did want to get in on this career-track startup world, and would start off with his current skill base, and transition over.

This is partially right. May be I was too cryptic in my posts. So to get this all sorted out;

- I don't have to work at a startup right away. I can work at any sized company for a stable job that pays as much as I currently make.

- I do have specialized skill in mechanical repairs which I believe can get me a job at my current level of pay. This has been ignored by most doubters in here because they are thinking I am looking for a high paying / programming job right away. I am not.

- I have looked into bay area jobs and there are jobs available that require that skill set.

- I do plan on getting some certifications in the next few months, these are not from my current field of work, but I have always wanted to get them to show general knowledge for various areas of computing.

- I mistakenly made the title a little misleading because I am not looking to live in San Francisco but rather in the suburbs at a reasonable distance from it. I don't mind two hour commute going back and forth.

- In case I can't find work in San Francisco, I am willing to work in the suburbs at the same level of pay that I currently have.

- This is the initial setup to move and get me going, next step is to develop a network of people and learn relevant skills that can come in handy in the startup world.

- And then find work in startup.


I did consider staying in NY and doing everything here the same way, but I don't see myself staying here in the long run. Why not move now and take care of it while I am it the process of making changes to my life.

I don't have a know it all attitude. I do have a problem with people making guesses about my qualifications based on their misunderstanding of my original statements.

As a great deal of people have mentioned networking as resource, I have reached out to some of my friends in the last few days. Some of these people I know through social networking sites and have had plenty of pleasant interaction with. I have also met a few of them in person. It turns out some of them do have contacts in the bay area and will be willing to introduce me to them. That's a start right?

I have also considered going to dev bootcamps but they are expensive and require students to give up their jobs while attending the boot camp. I am inclined to skip the whole house buying idea and put that down payment money towards the bootcamp once I have enough.

But nothing is concrete. I am always open to suggestions.

[robinlmorris]

@Chuck5000 - I totally agree that companies should wait for the right person... some teams I've worked with do wait and wait, but sadly some eventually give in and settle for a mediocre candidate. I've been a part of the hiring process in my last 3 jobs, and we normally don't care what exact skills/languages a person has, just if they can code (and know the things they put on their resume). The fact is most people I've interviewed can't code. When I interview, all I care is that the candidate is smart, will probably get their work done, and that the/she are not an a@$hole. If the candidate has worked with someone I currently work with and respect, and that person can vouch for them, of course it helps; however, it is not a main factor.
Also I never said it was easy to get a job out here... coding interviews are really difficult, but if you can code, that is all you really need to get a job. Just for reference, I've had 5 jobs out here in 4 different industries and only at my current job did I use my network to help me.

@ the OP - saving your money for a boot camp instead of rushing to buy a house is the most sensible thing you've said yet. Remember, buying is not always a good investment.... lots of people have lost a ton of money on houses.

[04kL4nD]

you should hire the OP, robinlmorris! Problem solved