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Your post is bizarre. This isn't about Affirmative Action. It's about specious, racially profiled, police violence. That is ALL about equal treatment - and about nothing else.
And now one of the players was robbed and now complaining police don't patrol his neighborhood. They are damned if they patrol because that means they are targeting Black people and they are damned if they don't because that means they don't care about Black people. And then guilty White Liberals want to put the focus on themselves so they don't have a guilty conscious gentrifying poor minority neighborhoods.
And now one of the players was robbed and now complaining police don't patrol his neighborhood. They are damned if they patrol because that means they are targeting Black people and they are damned if they don't because that means they don't care about Black people. And then guilty White Liberals want to put the focus on themselves so they don't have a guilty conscious gentrifying poor minority neighborhoods.
More nonsense. The police are not accused of targeting Blacks because / when they patrol Black neighborhoods. They are guilty of racial profiling when they stop, arrest, shoot Blacks in disproportionate degree and under circumstances where they do not respond with force to other races.
Your hyperbole is vacuous and ill-formed and illogical as usual.
Well, if you have a personal history of problems between you, that's one thing. To apply that feeling dismissively to everything he posts indiscriminate of the content of the posts individually runs a risk of glossing over valid observations and comments.
But, moving on, you have repeated your opinion several times that CK only began his protest as his career appeared to be tanking. Ok, a flag to consider there. On the other hand, his point (of the protest) is entirely valid, obviously. So then it is also reasonable to consider that people are constantly evolving. Maybe his introspection on his personal struggles increased his vision of his larger place in society. We are certainly seeing the protest now in athletes all across the spectrum and nation as they realize the power of their platform. And there is a lot of risk and sacrifice going with it as players lose fans and endorsements and make contributions to causes. These aren't a bunch of losers as you are accusing CK of being.
I'd also point out that your defense of Muhammad Ali and Jackie Robinson fails to recognize that those athletes also grew into their public images in stages. Ali wasn't popular in his protest of the Vietnam War at the time he went to jail. That helped build his persona of greatness over time as the value of his protest became later apparent.
Comparing Robinson and all Ali is like comparing apples, oranges and bananas: all they have in common are they are produce. Ali protested due to religion. DO I approve? No, but he had a reason, of course Jackie Robinson had some issues, he was the first black player, but neither sat on their asses, did nothing and then, suddenly decided to speak up for what he says is injustice. Has he refused to take his pay check from a white team, did he do anything to protest until now? Where has he been all these years? In what why has he had a personal struggle?
My opinion and that of the majority of Americans, he wanted attention: nothing more. He is spoiled brat that should be thanking his country for the right to voice his opinions; too bad he choose to voice them in such an insulting and demeaning way? He should be thankful God gave him the talent to play sports and he had the opportunity to be adopted by 2 loving parents. He could have spent his life in foster care like many kids do and he could have ever had the opportunity to develop his talent. What a first rate jerk! I would love to use even stronger words, but I don't want to get banned form CD.
Your post is bizarre. This isn't about Affirmative Action. It's about specious, racially profiled, police violence. That is ALL about equal treatment - and about nothing else.
So maybe the cop in Ferguson should have waited to see if little Mickey was going to shot him before he took action? Or the kid the other day with the bb gun should have not been shot? We can go on and on. Are there bad cops? of course, do some profile? Of course, but has it dawned on you, there may be a reason for all this? CK choose to insult the country, based on his so called oppression of black people. He has always stood up for what he believes in? NOT::::::::!!!!!!!!!!!!
Ad hominem. You seem to think those who have never served cannot be patriotic.
You applaud phony outrage by ballers who are infinitely more privileged than most.
There is far more phony outrage expressed by some of the more extreme Kaepernick critics; for example those saying ASAP that he should leave the USA, than there has been by CK himself, who has been a class act with the media and even when they asked some tough questions. Furthermore, he plans to donate $ 1 million of his own money and likely won't be getting any endorsements. Should he follow through with that donation, that should remove all reasonable doubts about his motives IMO except with the most intolerant types that want him to leave the USA because they are uncomfortable with even the slightest dissent.
Sitting during a National Anthem is hardly incendiary and should not seriously offend anyone IMO. It does not harm anyone else. I am far more offended by those pro athletes that have done harm to other people (physically beaten their wives/girlfriends, violated drug and steroid polices of the league, reckless and DUI driving, etc) than I am at CK.
I, like most others, choose to stand for both the Pledge of Allegiance and National Anthem. However, I have NO right to dictate that others do so.
At this point, I sincerely believe Kaepernick's views are genuine and it is not about his football career or a publicity stunt. Every week, a few more pro athletes are sitting down during the National Anthem. It all happens before the game, so nothing is disrupted.
Thanks for sharing your views.
Last edited by chessgeek; 09-16-2016 at 03:20 PM..
Comparing Robinson and all Ali is like comparing apples, oranges and bananas: all they have in common are they are produce. Ali protested due to religion. DO I approve? No, but he had a reason, of course Jackie Robinson had some issues, he was the first black player, but neither sat on their asses, did nothing and then, suddenly decided to speak up for what he says is injustice. Has he refused to take his pay check from a white team, did he do anything to protest until now? Where has he been all these years? In what why has he had a personal struggle?
My opinion and that of the majority of Americans, he wanted attention: nothing more. He is spoiled brat that should be thanking his country for the right to voice his opinions; too bad he choose to voice them in such an insulting and demeaning way? He should be thankful God gave him the talent to play sports and he had the opportunity to be adopted by 2 loving parents. He could have spent his life in foster care like many kids do and he could have ever had the opportunity to develop his talent. What a first rate jerk! I would love to use even stronger words, but I don't want to get banned form CD.
If he follows through on his planned $1 million donation, would you change your mind? That is hardly sitting on his rear assuming he follows through and I believe he will. I believe at the beginning of this issue a few weeks ago, the majority of Americans opposed him. Think that as more pro athletes sit and more people have spoken in support, that it is getting closer to 50/50.
You could also interpret being adopted and raised by two loving parents to mean that he has been fortunate in that regard, so now he should stand for something instead of just taking the money and being silent. Yes, stand for something because there are others less fortunate.
If someone sitting down angers you so much as to call him a "spoiled brat" and a "jerk", it is alarming to think what you might call some people that seriously harmed the nation (Iraq War, Tillman death coverup, Wall Street and housing fraud/illegalities prior to 2008 recession, etc). We should be far more angered with that IMO. Perhaps use even stronger words toward them than CK, don't you think?
Thanks for sharing your views.
Last edited by chessgeek; 09-16-2016 at 03:54 PM..
Maybe he just doesn't ****ing feel like standing for it. I'm embarssed for everyone that is pretending to be upset by this. None of us are obligated to stand for a silly song. This isn't North Korea.
Could not agree more. With all the outrage I heard in the first week after this was publicized, I actually asked a few friends if I was missing something. In addition to sitting for the National Anthem, did he also do something else? Did he get a DUI, beat his girlfriend, or something truly serious? I was told "No". Then I thought "What is the big deal?".
Thankfully, more reasonable voices have been heard recently. In other words, this is not among the worst things to happen in our nation in the last two decades. Or even close. If nothing else, it took some media attention away from the Kardashians. Lol.
With more pro athletes sitting during the National Anthem during last weekend's games, it seems the controversy is starting to lessen.
(I also think the 49ers 28-0 opening game win in a game expected to be much closer, also silenced some potential critics, who would likely be quick to say CK's "distraction" caused them to lose, but it did not happen thankfully.).
Well, if you have a personal history of problems between you, that's one thing. To apply that feeling dismissively to everything he posts indiscriminate of the content of the posts individually runs a risk of glossing over valid observations and comments.
Yep, and when people act childish, they risk being completed ignored or blocked by people that no longer have any interest in what they say. That's what happens when people behave in a troll-like manner.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tulemutt
But, moving on, you have repeated your opinion several times that CK only began his protest as his career appeared to be tanking (and had very little in financial stakes at risk...a valid point that you left out). Ok, a flag to consider there. On the other hand, his point (of the protest) is entirely valid, obviously. So then it is also reasonable to consider that people are constantly evolving. Maybe his introspection on his personal struggles increased his vision of his larger place in society. We are certainly seeing the protest now in athletes all across the spectrum and nation as they realize the power of their platform. And there is a lot of risk and sacrifice going with it as players lose fans and endorsements and make contributions to causes. These aren't a bunch of losers as you are accusing CK of being.
I'd also point out that your defense of Muhammad Ali and Jackie Robinson fails to recognize that those athletes also grew into their public images in stages. Ali wasn't popular in his protest of the Vietnam War at the time he went to jail. That helped build his persona of greatness over time as the value of his protest became later apparent.
Let's start with a correction. I never accused Kaepernick of being a loser. With the small percentage of people that actually make an NFL roster, no one could be called a loser (and certainly not someone who had accumulated financial gains of roughly $100 million...which is my understanding of what he has amassed). Whether his point of protest is valid or not is a matter of opinion (it wasn't the point of my thread and admittedly I'm surprised the thread took the turn it did when there was another thread going at the same time that served that vehicle). As for the Muhammad Ali and Jackie Robinson comment, the emphasis I was making was what they had on the line when they staged their protest. One man was an island (the only Black player in MLB). The other was in the prime of his boxing career, and I believe was suspended for 3 1/2 years from boxing. He did go on to continue with an incredible career, but that couldn't have been predicted at the time. And although, you didn't paint Kaepernick to wear the same shoes as Ali or Robinson, I have certainly seen people using that comparison. And I believe that is the epitome of ridiculous and quite frankly, a bit insulting to those that understand the plight of those two men. Neither of us know what's in Kaepernick's mind, so it's conjecture on both our parts (and that's fine because it's what should be expected when you throw out a purely subjective question as I did). In regards to other players making a stand, I have already commented on Ali and Robinson, so it's clear how I feel on the matter. Is it possible that Kaepernick evolved into this socially conscious person? Sure. Lots of things are possible. Is it possible that all along he knew what he was doing, and kept his mouth shut until he amassed a great fortune, with the end game to use it for his socially conscious causes? Yeah, I guess that could be possible too. Is it plausible? My opinion is no. And had there been anything in his history that indicated he was this type of person, he would have more credibility in my mind. He could have easily have reached out to any Black leaders when he first entered the league and they would have loved to have used him as a spokesperson. He chose not to. With that said, I'll stick with my original thoughts on the matter, realizing that you can also make a valid point by saying you felt he evolved into this person, which is a fair enough assessment if that is indeed the case (clearly neither of us will ever know).
The other post pretty much blew up on a lot of tangents, but I'm more interested on Kaepernick's motivation. Clearly if racial discrimination was such a big deal to him, he had plenty of other opportunities to stage his little protest (it's not like this issue hasn't been in the front of the news constantly over the last 4 years...I'm thinking Trayvon Martin and Michael Brown just to name a couple). And 4 years ago, he was the starter, the team was doing well, he was getting endorsements, and clearly in the limelight. And now, his career is essentially over (he'll clearly be a bench warmer this year). I'm not sure if he has any more endorsements left, and he's clearly gotten paid some incredible money (unlike his rookie contract which I believe ran for his first 3 years). I guess the point I'm making is he's got very little to lose now (not much skin in the game) as opposed to when he had a big contract on the horizon and some pretty good sponsor money coming in. So why now?
Some people walk around wide alseep their entire lives (or most of the their lives) until something happens (to them or not) that makes them fall awake.
I don't know if this is the case for CK, but considering there are some people that didn't even know he was black (including about 95% of my students) I can only imagine the image (adoption, no one in my family looks like me, etc.) issues he may have grown up with.
I actually selected other because I wanted to select "I don't know" (since I am not a mind reader) but that wasn't an available option.
So while I don't know his personal motivation, I think the point of any protest is attention/discussion and beyond... preferably change.
He wanted to spark the conversation about police brutality/racial profiling specifically against black people (people of color in his words). He did it for I think 2 games before it was even an issue (which in itself is why the outrage is so funny to me).
The only problem with this specific situation is certain people continue to point the dialogue in the direction of the act of the protest (him not standing for the flag). The discussion of that element is still stuck on him not standing for the flag and these people won't even acknowledge the original point of the protest.
I don't have any statistical data, but I imagine the majority of those same people don't even acknowledge the history of police brutality/abuse of power in the black community. Maybe it's possible regardless of what he did as a protest (since many people are saying 'not the right place') they would've found some other reason why his protest wasn't acceptable to their standards.
The purpose is civil discussion and dialogue, but most people only see what is in front of them and do not have respect for people with other opinions besides their own (or along the same line of thinking). This cuts deep both ways.
My issue isn't with people who disagree with CK. My issue is with the hypocrisy of people who disagree with him but then do (or have done the following):
make treasonous statement against the current administration
say "love it or leave it" as if people can't disagree with government policies
support Cliven Bundy and their mini-militia claiming that group is "patriots"
wants to deport all muslims
but wants share how much they admired Muhammad Ali because of his conviction
The combination of these statements (in the context of "patriotism") is all so clearly hypocritical. But again, people only see what is in front of them.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yankeemama
I can watch whatever the hell I want. And I repeat that I grew up watching The Niners. I do recall the local racists, mostly out on the peninsula, getting all peeved when Jerry Rice brought up some inequities back in the 80's. Yeah, like true racist fans. Don't like their black players having any "thoughts". I know what your coded language means. I will gladly watch CK on The Niners or any other player in any other league. You don't decide what kind of sports people watch based on politics. Please.
It's kind of funny you mention this because when Jerry Rice tweeted "all lives matter" (and twitter crushed him for it) I specifically thought about that interview with JR speaking his mind only to be put immediately back "in his place".
Quote:
Originally Posted by sourdough
So what do you think Kaepernick's motivation is for his protest?
I voted other. IMO. He has overcome the being black in America stigma and is just showing support for his black brothers and sisters he left behind. I support the hopeful ideals of his act but not his action. Well and good, but he chose the wrong venue IMO. There is no racial, social, religious equality. It is a false ideology.
What is the correct venue for peaceful protest?
Quote:
Originally Posted by ctr88
There is a tremendous amount of judgement in our society and stereotypes based on race. I'm not denying this. But when Kaepernick, BLM, and the media ignore the facts that by FAR the biggest threat to the safety and livelihood of AA's in this country is other AA's, to me they lose a lot of credibility. If they focused more on the biggest issues like: black on black violent crime, single motherhood in the black community, and the idolizing of thugs and gangsters in young black male culture via the media/rap/hip hop....they would get a lot more respect and credibility from me.
The BLM movement wasn't created to deal with aforementioned issues the black community has. There are groups that supersede BLM that were created to discuss those issues. I have my own theories why those previous groups are focusing efforts in the wrong direction but that's completely off topic to this thread.
I don't think anyone should be expected to acquiesce their civil liberties because there is crime in their community.
I liked that Kaepernick presented his viewpoint without getting "pre-approval" from an established black leader first. He otherwise could have been criticized for a lack of courage and not being his own person. It is more genuine this way IMO. He can still work with them and support their efforts after the season (and vica versa). I do agree that no one can say for absolute certain his motivation at this point.
As more athletes at the pro, college, and high school level kneel during the National Anthem, I predict there will be a shift toward a majority that either support or don't care about this issue and fewer that oppose it.
I reject the notion presented in a few posts that just because someone does not do this at or near the peak of their career, it is somehow not genuinely motivated. Furthermore, the issue CK has spoken about has been in the news in a far more prominent way this year than when the 49ers played the Ravens in the Super Bowl.
I really can't sympathize with those at a game that complain either. How hard is it to just look at the flag or the other people and athletes that are standing and ignore the one or few that are kneeling while the very brief "National Anthem" is being sung? Not difficult at all. Glad that the fake outrage and controversy over this is a little less than it was a couple weeks ago.
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