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Involuntary commitment would 100% have to be a part of it, there would be no other way!!
The thing is, these people want to be this way because they currently know nothing else. It is almost like a naughty child that would really like to continue playing in the street or would like to continue to play with fire, but as a responsible parent, you cannot allow that to happen, they will hurt themselves, or worse.
I have a personal connection to mental illness, my single mother is bipolar with a touch of schizo-effective or something of the sort(she refuses full diagnosis & leaves the minute anyone mentions anything beyond garden variety depression & anxiety-her new doc is smart, tells her she needs bipolar meds for her "depression" it's what has to happen, unfortunately-getting her to take them regularly is another story). My mother is fortunate, she was born in another era & she had family to ensure she was taken care of & keep her on track. It made for an interesting home life, but that is another story for another day ;-) There have been times that my mother does not know what is best for herself & the family had to make decisions for her. My grandmother cleaned her house, I now pay to have it done as I live in another state with MS & 5 kids...although last minute "day trips" still happen. My point here is that i have compassion & i understand, but tough love is necessary!!!
My point with the numbers was that if more than $350M is being spent, it is being wasted.
I cannot imagine any other sector where the leader states they need $1B to solve a 350M issue & it is given-with no real plan & no results, yet they still are asking for more & still without a plan!!...can you imagine??? Try that at work some day!!!
On a personal level, imagine hiring a caterer, they tell you it will be 3500, you pay. They don't show up. You call. They state that things didn't go according to plan & now they need $5k. You pay. They still dont show up. You call. They say they need another $7500....at what point do you say, ok, that's enough. Obviously you do not have the ability, knowledge, experience, whatever to get this job done & hire someone else with new ideas???
As someone who used to be in social services in this area, I will say that there ARE programs already up and running to help people who *only* need help with food, resources, job training, homelessness. There are lots of kind, willing and able do-gooders out there to help those who want help. Money is already there. People are already waiting for people to walk through the door.
The people living in the camps are those people who cannot or will not participate in these programs because they are currently valuing drugs more. Those programs have rules these people can't or won't follow. That's what makes it hard to solve without involuntary commitment of some kind. I don't know how else to do it.
One thing I have noticed all over is that many do-gooders as you call them have wonderful intentions, but do not have the experience to understand or resources necessary to SOLVE the issues. Many programs unintentionally are just a bandaid & just delay the inevitable :-(
I do some work with a homeless shelter here in AL(I make & deliver food), I see a few disconnects for getting folks to true sustainability, it has improved, but the problem still looms & I also see many vets that are so far gone noone knows how to help them & for now this is just how it is. The veterans bother me most, this wasn't a choice for them. There is one man that knows when i come & he always brings me flowers(&i bring him cigarettes). We have spoken so many times & he doesnt want to live this way, but fears what he will do if he is around people because of his PTSD :-(
So there are different types of homeless, different circumstances that lead people to this life, & that is 100% something that needs to be addressed as well!!
With your experience in social services you likely know, is there an agency that actually talks to people to determine where they fit?? What programs they are eligible for?? Someone to say "ok, I will advocate at the VA to get help for your PTSD, then we will get you housing through another program, & some food vouchers through another program & job training through your GI bill"(or whatever based on each individuals circumstances).
Inter-agency cooperation is a must with an issue this large.
My grandfather went to the army instead of jail at 15...this was a common occurrence back then for young people getting into typical teen trouble. Jail or military. Nothing wrong with offering alternatives & enforcing laws!!!
I've been out of it for 15 years now, and mostly worked in the Tacoma and Olympia areas... but there are probably people and programs who have a broader case management perspective and longer range goals who might be able to assess situations and help people explore resources available. In Seattle that used to be the Fremont Public Association - now I see they are known as Solid Ground, and their focus has changed a little. Might still be good but I don't know anyone there any more.
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tammie2 - One thing I have noticed all over is that many do-gooders as you call them have wonderful intentions, but do not have the experience to understand or resources necessary to SOLVE the issues.
I noticed something when I was working in the system that I think has an impact. Most social workers, and social programs, are run by people who used to be recipients. On first impression, that's a good thing, they understand what the client is going through, they have "street cred". They've pulled themselves up and decided to help others do the same. But they also don't know what they don't know about actually living life outside of welfare programs. They understand the system and the cycle... Not life outside it. It leads to some rather myopic perspectives. I came from outside the system, and I didn't know what I didn't know either... it led to some really interesting conversations around the office. Good times, good people. Mostly.
I noticed something when I was working in the system that I think has an impact. Most social workers, and social programs, are run by people who used to be recipients. On first impression, that's a good thing, they understand what the client is going through, they have "street cred". They've pulled themselves up and decided to help others do the same. But they also don't know what they don't know about actually living life outside of welfare programs. They understand the system and the cycle... Not life outside it. It leads to some rather myopic perspectives. I came from outside the system, and I didn't know what I didn't know either... it led to some really interesting conversations around the office. Good times, good people. Mostly.
This is what i too have noticed, but my experience is limited to that of a volunteer in AL & IL, so i was unsure if my experiences matched the Seattle reality. The programs I have seen are run by wonderful yet inexperienced people with nothing but the best of intentions!
At the end of the day, comprehensive programs are most important, not just addressing basic needs(food, shelter, medical, etc), but getting to the root & following up from day one until full sufficiency.
It would be no different than saying "oh, you broke your leg? Ok, here's a bandaid & an aspirin"...that would not solve the problem & ultimately would just make the problem worse!!
For most of us we can just think "oh they can go from ABC to xyz to lmnop to get all their needs met on a path to sufficiency"... HOWEVER we are talking about folks that cannot remove their own trash, would rather live with/in it than take it to a trash can down the street when they will be walking right by it. Obviously something just isn't right with these folks and they need a bit more help than you or I might!
Grab 'em up and put them all in prison. But, and it is a big butt, offer them counseling to get off the drug (s) they're on. Then, once they're clean and they've served their sentence, let them out. Just like Providence, RI, does. Give them a chance to come in and check in, they really need to experience life without drugs and/or alcohol. Why should taxpayers pay their way?
You heard me right. Put on your buds, listen to some fine Foghat or Tragically Hip, and go to school. Learn a skill that pays your way. You're too sick to make a living? Better get a trained counselor to say you're clinically too sick to make a living the old-fashioned way.
I don't know why the majority of you aren't pissed off about this. If I knew that people were living in tents in the city of Seattle, and they weren't paying any rent, I'd want to know what's up. And I'd demand the phonies behind the Seattle City Council and King County government provide a viable answer. Absolute stupidity and ridiculousness.
I was eating lunch yesterday and glanced at a headline in the newspaper. It was about breaking the cycle for people from getting out of jail and going rite to the streets. I didn't get a chance to read it because I was shoving a slice of pizza down my throat.
I was eating lunch yesterday and glanced at a headline in the newspaper. It was about breaking the cycle for people from getting out of jail and going rite to the streets. I didn't get a chance to read it because I was shoving a slice of pizza down my throat.
I've got one simple request for you, if you haven't already. Watch Eric Johnson's 'Seattle is Dying.' When it comes to the Rhode Island part put down your drink/joint/needle/sandwich/piece of pizza and pay attention. You'll get it.
I was eating lunch yesterday and glanced at a headline in the newspaper. It was about breaking the cycle for people from getting out of jail and going rite to the streets. I didn't get a chance to read it because I was shoving a slice of pizza down my throat.
I've got one simple request for you, if you haven't already. Watch Eric Johnson's 'Seattle is Dying.' When it comes to the Rhode Island part put down your drink/joint/needle/sandwich/piece of pizza and pay attention. You'll get it.
I saw it.
Not sure that RI thing would work here. We are in 2 different worlds.
The problem here is much bigger and again, totally different atmosphere.
Not sure that RI thing would work here. We are in 2 different worlds.
The problem here is much bigger and again, totally different atmosphere.
If you're not sure the R.I. thing will work there, I can only pray for you and about 5 million more people in Seattle. You're screwed.
As for me and my lot here in southern New Mexico, oh, we've got another problem ta deal with. I'm going to head south on Monday to Juarez, Mexico, ta get dental work for cheaper than in the U.S.
Meanwhile, Trump's wanting to put a thicker, stronger wall up, and I'm going to go see how it's really like on the border. Say a prayer for me.
Ok, I am an outsider(only in this forum due to a potential job move), I have lived all over the country, & my perspectives reflect that...so take my commentary for what it is worth on this anonymous internet forum-for a location that I have not seen in close to 30yrs :-)
My thing has always been a numbers game, it's how I roll, this is no different, so here goes...
*There are approx 13k homeless in Seattle (numbers reported vary from 12-13k, we will go with the high number just for the sake of argument & to ensure proper funding).
*Substance abuse rehabilitation costs ~$6-8000/person for a 30day inpatient program. For all 13k to attend a 30day program at $8k(remember, we want to make sure we have enough money), this would cost $104M
*Now, these same folks will likely need some type of vocational training to become gainfully employed, this will help to ensure fewer relapses & help prevent them from just becoming homeless again. Average cost of vocational training-$3-15k/person depending on the type of training. We will average this one since there is such a spread & all people will not want or be able to do the same thing & we will go with $9k/person...this would be a cost of $117M***
*These folks will need a place to live & stay clean while attending their training programs. The best would likely be some dormitory style housing with sponsors(very similar to college life with floor leaders & one or more people overseeing the building)...this cost would be hardest to estimate, my personal thoughts would be to have some of the homeless shelters help with this, basically use existing services & existing/abandoned buildings for this(but I don't live there, I am unaware if this would be an option)...for now we will say that 3-12mos of dormitory style housing would cost on average another $9k/person...or $117M
To me, this looks like a $338M problem.
1)spending anymore(ie billions)is ridiculous!!
2)not addressing it because it would cost $338M is insane!!
3)population of the Seattle metro is just over 3.8M, so who ISNT willing to spend $100 per person to end this crisis??? Heck, I will send a check for my $700(7 person household)& I don't even live there!!!
4)AND much of this should be covered under some federal programs(Medicaid, FAFSA, etc-&likely more, I am just thinking of mainstream programs), so it isn't even likely going to cost that much!!
There will still be some folks who cannot be helped, there will be some folks who have issues so severe that they will either need lifelong committment or will be back on the streets, but at least not in numbers that will overwhelm shelters & other resources!!!
***Some of the vocational training can be done free of charge by the local business community(I did this type of work for 2yrs...I was a recruiter who volunteered with a military installation to help returning vets obtain training & find employment)...I am sure that many local employers would be willing to help & they need staff in the mailroom & as secretaries & as baristas & on & on!! The folks would return clean, have on the job training that they would be paid for, & in return maybe they could get a few tax incentives for each person they hired from the program (or a tiered model, whatever would work the best after seeing current tax & incentive rates)
That's my 2¢
As an aside, I am a pain management patient with MS, I am glad the federal government is making the world safer by limiting my pain medication to 90ME(down from 120-140ME)after 8-1/2yrs...don't y'all feel safer?? Now I can't get out of bed 50% of the time-whewww, y'all dodged a bullet ;-) I can feel the impact in the tent cities all the way down here in AL ;-)
Tammie2, thank you for this post and your later post... Math doesn't lie and it's sad that most of the money that is earmarked for homeless programs never make it to these programs since the funds end up in the city's and county's general funds for "other" unknown projects and payouts. And!! Equally as bad, the outrageously high "administration costs."
Btw, your 2 cents are spot on!!
If the mayor's office and the city council would spend the allotted funds properly, without All the hidden costs, we would most likely not be in as bad of a situation that we're now in. I know it's wishful thinking, but I wish there was a way to honestly audit the city/county on the actual amounts of dollars that are spent on homeless projects and programs. I'm pretty sure if the truth was ever discovered, it would be pretty shocking to the people on the Left, Right and Center.
I know that if the city council remains the same, nothing will ever change. It sad, but I would put money that all, but one or two of these clowns will be reelected on more lies and fake promises to the all tax payers in this area.
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