Living in a VAN down by the RIVER! (Florida, acres, house)

[Woof]

Originally Posted by Nor'Eastah

....... My first impulse would be to flee to Canada. They have less debt, a much smaller military, way lower population, and a nation of LAWS.

...... So is this country really the "best". I wonder. DW and I are doing some homework on this now. We both have passports, but our daughters and their spouses do not, nor do the 6 grandchildren. Before this is all over with, we may have to find another place to call "home".

.........it's very obvious to me that the USA I grew up in is not the USA I now live in......

While I'm pretty much stuck here due to health problems and low income, I've thought pretty much the same thing, plus I've always had a Grass Is Greener Anywhere Else kind of mentality.

Unfortunately I haven't been able to travel abroad, so this is all internet hearsay - some of which you can find on the World subforum, and of course there's also an RV Living forum here.

Canada, best but probably you couldn't legally become a citizen without having a pile of cash, the other ways of doing it are having a needed skill or being a refugee from persecution. However it seems to be easy enough to just go there and stay, without worrying too much about legalities.

Ecuador is probably the best "el cheapo" country where the quality of life is good but cost of living is very low.


To Live in Cuenca, Ecuador - YouTube

Mexico was good for a long time, but it's become too violent in my opinion.

Uruguay is politically and financially stable, and has the closest culture to American/European in South America. It's not the cheapest choice, but neither is it expensive. I also learned just today that it still has the high quality grass fed beef that Argentina used to have (they've gone to grain in feedlots), for whatever that's worth.

Costa Rica is still superb in many ways, but it's long been discovered by rich people from around the world and so the prices have risen.

Australia, New Zealand, and Europe all are great places to consider, but there are often formidable obstacles to legally moving to them for retirement (or maybe it's just citizenship that's the biggest obstacle, I'm not clear on that). One survivalist/prepardness woman on another forum is an interpreter and traveled extensively throughout Europe ..... she felt that some areas still had oldstyle self-reliant living, where everyone had a large garden, animals, fruit trees etc and could easily survive without civilization (other than health care of course). She thought parts of Hungary and Austria close to their borders were like that, also Romania ...... but she also thought highly of Montenegro.

South of France is mostly rural and not too expensive, and you can't beat the culture and food.

New Zealand of course is one of the best if you can retire there legally. They're peaceful and cooperative, grow or raise lots of food, and fish lots of other food. Can't beat the vistas. Plus the boredom keeps obnoxious noisy young people from immigrating or staying there.

Here's a Satisfaction with Life Index: Satisfaction with Life Index - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

There are other similar indexes, some of which put Costa Rica near the top if a simpler lifestyle of endless bananas, beautiful young wives, happy fiestas, peace, and safety, are desired. It's a strongly democratic society, has no military, and the culture is more accepting of American retirees than many others south of us.

[MyVan]

Originally Posted by Nor'Eastah

Ron Paul and many others have suggested that the border fence between the US and Mexico is to keep the Americans IN, not to keep the Mexicans OUT. Fact is, fewer Mexicans are coming here. Another fact is, lots of Americans are voting with their feet, and moving elsewhere. Sometimes I wonder if our whole family (all 15 of us) should be leaving the US for good. Any other thoughts on this?

I like a lot about RP but that sounds like a load of BS. I live in Southern California and I spoken to many people who have seen the changes taking place since the invasion started. So Cal is not the wholesome, clean place it was 40 years ago. Drive through Compton, Inglewood, etc and tell me you'd like to raise your kids there. And yet, 40 years ago they were lovely cities.

And as has been suggested there are many White men who cannot get jobs because once those racist Mexicans (and they are more racially loyal to each other than any White person) get into management positions, they typically hire only their own. Whole industries have been taken over by these illegals and they have driven down wages in every field.

So stop listening to people who live in big houses on hills and observe what's happening on the ground in the real word.

[MyVan]

Originally Posted by Be Free

Reminds me of an old hermit who used to live in the woods behind us when I was a kid. He had about 100 acres and an old cabin that I suspect was a garage kit. He ate cold beans out of a can and had no electricity in his cabin, but he used to watch a little black and white TV that was hooked to a car battery. We'd visit him sometimes and take him baked goods or whatever and he was actually an interesting guy. When he died, they found a stack of uncashed social security checks on the dash of his old pickup. Some people just don't lust after the stuff most Americans do.

MY HERO! Love it!


I think Mac is his own man and I respect his decision. Making a lot of money isn't necessary if you know how to do things yourself.

[Woof]

Well, Mac said that you could send him a PM with a request for his cell phone number, and if he ever checks them he will give it to you and chat. That way anyone interested could call him every now and then.

I'd do it, but I find personal contact with people to be painful. I much prefer the internet.

[Be Free]

Me too. I suppose it's because I can just shut them off if they irritate me.

[jmx66]

Originally Posted by MyVan

I like a lot about RP but that sounds like a load of BS. I live in Southern California and I spoken to many people who have seen the changes taking place since the invasion started. So Cal is not the wholesome, clean place it was 40 years ago. Drive through Compton, Inglewood, etc and tell me you'd like to raise your kids there. And yet, 40 years ago they were lovely cities.

And as has been suggested there are many White men who cannot get jobs because once those racist Mexicans (and they are more racially loyal to each other than any White person) get into management positions, they typically hire only their own. Whole industries have been taken over by these illegals and they have driven down wages in every field.

So stop listening to people who live in big houses on hills and observe what's happening on the ground in the real word.

So much for the "melting pot" mindset, huh?
Really a "winning" post.

[SCGranny]

Originally Posted by Themanwithnoname

Oddly enough, I have friends in both Argentina and Canada, and they are ALL trying to get HERE! (Also have buddies pulling security gigs in various south/central countries)

Check out the requirements to immigrate to Mexico. Check out their 3rd (IIRC) source of income ($ from the US)... won't be good to be there if the USD is done.


South Africa... good luck with that!

the Argentine 'outback' has SOME value, if you know the area well, fit in with the locals, have revenue other than the USD, and are willing to lower your standard of living.

-I actually like the idea of paying my 'taxes' to the local PD rather than the IRS.

IRS doesn't care, but if you give the local police chief $100/week or whatever... you have a relationship

As to both countries and others... none are as free as the US. Canada's a nation of laws allright... too many of them! Both would suffer greatly if the USD went down in flames (Or up in smoke) and I really can't see an advantage other than if the US turned into some jackbooted thug haven and you had to go a la the Jews in Nazi Germany. (And that is doubtful IMHO)

If you take issue with the police, or the 'scams'
Look at the police in other countries, Argentina's 3:1, or the way they limit the amount of USD you can buy with your Peso RIGHT NOW...


I HAVE done my homework, and I decided some remote corner of the US, where I contribute to the FD and the PD, be out of debt, off the grid, make some of my own food, the area produces much else I need, and staking up $ (B/c $ is power)

Is WAAAAY better than a country where I'm 'The Gringo' when my FRN's are worthless!

Not saying I'm right, just saying.

Well, I'll say you're right...

I had some friends who were going to move to Belize and wanted us to do the same. They talked about the wonderful climate, the cheap living, and the great attitude toward the 'gringos' - and how they could have a house for less than $100 a month, cheap food, and servants that would only run them $50 a month.
Un-hunh.
I looked into it, and they were absolutely right. Unfortunately the guerillas on the other side of the mountains occasionally liked to come over for supplies, and the peasants were often implicated in the guerilla activities. The medical care was 'excellent' - for the area. The food was cheap - but "locally grown" in SA means whatever cheap pesticides, herbicides, and fertilizer works, is what they use, including human waste.

We talk on C-D a lot about moving as a 'newbie' to an unfamiliar area. Lots of locals don't want the starry-eyed folk moving in and altering their lifestyles, even if they bring loads of cash with them. Check almost any forum on C-D, and you'll find not only a "worst places to live" thread, but a lot of curmudgeons who tell people - "Don't move here and become a parasite. There's no jobs, you'll take them away from the locals, and scenery, cheap housing, and cheap food don't mean a dang thing if you are living in your car." -etc etc etc.

Now imagine that attitude exacerbated by your unfamiliarity with a country, its laws, its languages, its political ins and outs, or what you have to do to survive. Imagine if the political situation is volatile - and you don't know it. You could quickly end up on the wrong side of the fence - a victim of everything from kidnappings to murder. Imagine being rushed to the nearest hospital for a sudden dysfunction - and you can't explain your symptoms in their language, there is no quality or standard of care, and your Medicare or BC/BS is useless there...

Fred Reed, an American journalist-turned-columnist whom I very much enjoy, lives in Mexico and quite happily too. Recently he has been talking about the volatility of not only SA but of the US, how violence is crossing the borders, how locals feel, how he feels. With all of the turmoil, increasing anger and angst, spreading thru every country, do you REALLY want to be where the laws do not protect you at least to some extent, where your very language marks you as a potential victim?

After I showed my reaserch to those friends, they quit talking about Belize. They realized that with 4 young children, they were setting themselves up for a fall; that believing the fruit from the trees just fell into their hands and that locals would fight to become their servants, was not a feasible reality.

I prefer to stay buried in the backfield of this country, even in an unfamiliar state in an underpopulated area. Because even though I have met a couple of folks who "hate newcomers" simply because they are new, for the most part I have enjoyed the companionship of other Americans who have the same expectations as I - to be left alone, to be able to do as they please, to be able to operate within (and sometimes outside of) the laws and lifestyles with which we are all familiar. There might be a militia forming (and we might be a part of it!) but if there are guerillas over the mountains, thinking that our land and children and possessions are theirs to take, there will be resistance.

[1957TabbyCat]

My oldest son wanted a job while going to school other then working for me. So he goes to one of the auto salvage yards we do alot of biz with, it is corporate so the manager changes.

So he asks the latest manager who does not know us like much of the staff does, no jobs now. He has learned to speak fluent Spanish from the area. Starts talking Spanish, and was told he could come in and start on next week if he wants. He wound up deciding not too.


Never really expected learning to speak some Spanish could be a lifeline.

Some of the talk about paying the police was funny. But worked well for relative in the 1960's. Local bizmen had to pay the cops a weekly fee or no response or poor slow response and the biz was a legal mainstream small biz. He was outraged at first, but came to like them. Fast response for everyone who pays and perps are taken away promptly and feel sorry for what they did. In the NE USA. The cops really cared about the reputataion of their own side biz.

As far as going to many countries the best ticket may not be a young person who goes and marries a local from a reasonably well connected family. I worked with a man in an Engineering Department who wanted to move to Austrailia in the worst way. He visits there speaks with the same company there and is told no way is he going to get a work visa period. A alot of "refugees skate in"If he wants to move to Australia he could "invest a very large some of money" like some Asians. Or was told if he is really serious be an illegal alien there and work under the table and that he quite likely could survive then find a local woman.

I like Fred's column too, but one of the things not so popular about Fred is is really juicy disabilty pension. No doubt makes him quite well liked way south of the border. He was actually trying to get is step daughter some USA bennies via his being a citizen. He was irate too as it turned out not to be a cakewalk. He writes well and makes some very good observations. The private sector is a whole nother game. If he was legally blind and broke....I always do look forward to his columns.

On the brighter side there really are middleclass people outside the USA, and they can sometimes be interesting and decent. There is alot of crap about people eating out of trash dumps and we need to "send money to some NGO goofballs" There really are alot of people who live in normal to even rather nice homes, drive cars, use a computer eat and dress well outside the USA. In some cases even have alot more on the ground civil rights then we do here, even if in some cases it means paying government employee directly or having fewer people grazing on transfer payments then in the USA or Western Europe or in the case of Western Europe more rational big governement.


The USA is becoming more and more of Turdworld country. Still there are worse places and many people manage to have some quality of life here.
I met my oldest son to select some items at a big box home improvemnet store. One of the employees who does not look like us overhears me stating most everyone in this place is "trapped" in a subsistance world not far removed from slavery with no likely way out for most. We then got closely watched by security and some of the employees for the duration of the visit. It was a private conversation usually cant even get much help in the place let along polite help, but were in something of a hurry. There could be alot more people like in the big box store outside of the USA. There alot of people in the USA today who cannot fathom how much the cheap help really hates them. Could be exponentially worse outside the USA.

[Nor'Eastah]

Some great information here about gettin' outta Dodge-USA!

I expect we will continue with our plans to move to northern New England, while keeping a little cash aside in case we have to move quickly to another location. I'm glad we have passports. I've offered to pay for the kids and grandkids to get passports, too...difficult to get anyone to MOVE on this topic! "Get them while you can!" I say, and will say the same thing to everyone here. If you can afford a passport, and can find the time somehow to get one, I strongly advise it.

It's always nice to have the OPTION to leave, even if you're not planning on it right now!

[Aptor hours]

Originally Posted by Woof

Well, Mac said that you could send him a PM with a request for his cell phone number, and if he ever checks them he will give it to you and chat. That way anyone interested could call him every now and then.

I'd do it, but I find personal contact with people to be painful. I much prefer the internet.

I have his phone and I will check on him. I'm sure he is fine
But if by chance he needed help I'm close and can help and .



so can