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Plenty of college teams that have great attendence too paull. Some people don't like the pro sports but go to college games instead. Its a whole different world in America when it comes to sports sometimes!
Forget about any PRO sports teams in Austin. That's Longhorns town.
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Fort Worth
*sigh*.... because we "share" everything with Dallas, we have little to no chance of having any sports teams of our own, although technically the Rangers could be called our team since they play in Arlington, which is in Fort Worth's county (I wont say that about the Cowboys because there are some Dallasites who get their panties in a bunch when we JUST point out the fact that they're not even playing in Dallas County anymore). I actually envision an MLS club here in Fort Worth, and there's some sites within the core of the city limits, close to vibrant, redeveloping neighborhoods and downtown where we could place a soccer-specific stadium. I'd go on, but I'll just leave it at soccer since this is a soccer topic. Sorry if I went on a bit there, but any time the topic of sports in Fort Worth comes up, I get a little animate.
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El Paso
Sure El Paso itself has over 500,000. But the Metro area only has about 300k more, not even breaking a million (although, I'm not sure if they're counting Juárez or not), still, metro areas play more of a part in cities having teams and El Paso's got a ways to go.... although, they are also thinking MLS.
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They are big cities do they not have major sport teams?
I think I get your point, though I think the US national team is pretty decent...
Being from the UK, I grew up playing football (soccer) in the street and on the school playground for years, plus it was the main sport at our school, along with rugby. This is also the case in many other countries, but in the US, kids would have to be put in a league to be able to play regularly.
If you look at all the greats and most skilled footballers over time, they learnt their skills on the street as kids, many coming from poor backgrounds. That doesn't happen so much (or at all) in the US as football still isn't one of the top 3 mainstream sports.
I think I get your point, though I think the US national team is pretty decent...
Being from the UK, I grew up playing football (soccer) in the street and on the school playground for years, plus it was the main sport at our school, along with rugby. This is also the case in many other countries, but in the US, kids would have to be put in a league to be able to play regularly.
If you look at all the greats and most skilled footballers over time, they learnt their skills on the street as kids, many coming from poor backgrounds. That doesn't happen so much (or at all) in the US as football still isn't one of the top 3 mainstream sports.
I made the same point earlier in the thread. American soccer players mainly come from the suburbs and they are not tough compared to their European counterparts. In other parts of the world, soccer is a game of the streets. The players are street tough and they have a killer instinct to go along with killer skills. That's where they learn to master their first touch on the ball...something American players still need to improve upon.
Being from the UK, I grew up playing football (soccer) in the street and on the school playground for years, plus it was the main sport at our school, along with rugby. This is also the case in many other countries, but in the US, kids would have to be put in a league to be able to play regularly.
I can't speak much about the PNW because I've only visited there. But again, the overwhelming majority of Americans live east of the Mississippi River. So I don't think you can make any assessment about soccer's popularity across the country based on conversations you've had with people in Seattle, Vancouver (which is not the US) and Portland. Those places are so far removed from the norm in America. America is more like Newport News, Virginia than it is Portland, Oregon.
You cannot simply dismiss other areas of the country. Why do people in the East Coast have this arrogant attitude? Regardless, I have lots of friends who have moved to various areas of the northeast and a good chunk of them are soccer fans.
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Originally Posted by BajanYankee
I'm from the Northeast and still live in the Northeast. Soccer is really only popular among certain Hispanics (we have lots of Puerto Ricans, Dominicans and Cubans here who prefer baseball over most sports), Africans and West Indians (a minority), and upper middle-class, well-educated, and well-traveled Europhiles (again, a minority).
I have friends who live in different cities in the Northeast and they would disagree with your statement. For example, Philadelphia has a long and storied history with the sport. Again, it is all about perspective.
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Originally Posted by BajanYankee
I'm talking about jersey sales just in the United States. You're far more likely to see someone wearing a basketball jersey in your typical mall than a soccer jersey.
I dont really see a whole lot of either to be honest.
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Originally Posted by BajanYankee
I don't know about that last part. The NBA probably doesn't keep track of team sales when it comes to jerseys. We identify jerseys with individual players. Nobody says, "Hey, I see you're wearing an L.A. Lakers jersey with the Number 24 on it today." They'd just say, "You're wearing a Kobe jersey." I would not be surprised, however, if Manchester U sells more jerseys than any team because that's the only team most Americans know. If you just look at straight up jersey sales in the US, which is the most relevant metric, soccer doesn't come close to basketball.
You think NBA teams dont track team jersey sales? I can assure you they do. That's like saying Wal-Mart doesnt keep inventory. They know every jersey, every bumper sticker, every lapel pin that is sold for each team. That goes for all teams in all sports.
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Originally Posted by BajanYankee
That might true, but that doesn't mean that there are more total soccer fans in the US than there are basketball fans. And it definitely does not mean that a pickup game of soccer is as easy to find as a pickup game of basketball. As far as sports go in this country, basketball still rules the streets, the YMCA, and intramural teams among lawyers, accountants and engineers.
Of course not, the NBA is been around a lot longer than MLS. Sports fandom is most often passed down by generation and their are generations of NBA fans. MLS is just now experiencing the second generation of fans whereas the NBA has 6 or 7 generations of fans. However, statistics show that the popularity of the NBA is gradually fading whereas MLS popularity is growing rapidly.
I actually can play soccer any night of the week at different parks all over the city with other adults but I have no clue where to play basketball. I play in an over 30 league that has 4 divisions with 12 teams in each. That is just one of many adult leagues in the city. The basketball court down the street from my house has rotted away and the goals no longer have hoops because they rusted off because no one uses it. However, there are kids and teenagers kicking around soccer balls in the grass beside it all the time. Again, it is all about perspective.
I work for a large corporation and they give us $2,000 a year for a company soccer team to play both indoor and outdoor. There is no company basketball or softball team. Youth soccer leads the country by far in participation.
You cannot simply dismiss other areas of the country. Why do people in the East Coast have this arrogant attitude?
I did not dismiss them. I simply stated the fact that most Americans live east of the Mississippi River, which makes the eastern states as a whole more representative of America than the Pacific Northwest. There are more towns in the United States like Dayton, Ohio, Knoxville, Tennessee, or Greenville, South Carolina than there are like Seattle, Washington. That's a fact.
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Originally Posted by RjRobb2
Regardless, I have lots of friends who have moved to various areas of the northeast and a good chunk of them are soccer fans.
That's fine.
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Originally Posted by RjRobb2
I have friends who live in different cities in the Northeast and they would disagree with your statement. For example, Philadelphia has a long and storied history with the sport. Again, it is all about perspective.
LOL. I am from Philadelphia...born and raised. Soccer is not big in the region beyond youth leagues and some elite prep and public high schools. Besides, this is the city that produced Wilt Chamberlain, Kobe Bryant, Earl "The Pearl" Monroe, and Rasheed Wallace. And Julius Erving and Allen Iverson played their ball there. So no, soccer is a drop in the bucket compared to basketball. It ranks somewhere far behind basketball, football and baseball.
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Originally Posted by RjRobb2
I dont really see a whole lot of either to be honest.
Well, I do. I see them all over Brooklyn, all over Jersey, all over Philly, all over Boston, all over Atlanta, all over Chicago. I probably see one soccer jersey for every 50 basketball jerseys I see. Basketball is just a much bigger sport here.
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Originally Posted by RjRobb2
You think NBA teams dont track team jersey sales? I can assure you they do. That's like saying Wal-Mart doesnt keep inventory. They know every jersey, every bumper sticker, every lapel pin that is sold for each team. That goes for all teams in all sports.
Again, the question is whether more total soccer jerseys are sold than basketball jerseys. The University of North Carolina probably sells more jerseys in the U.S. than any soccer club. This is a football and basketball-dominated country.
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Originally Posted by RjRobb2
I actually can play soccer any night of the week at different parks all over the city with other adults but I have no clue where to play basketball.
This is just funny. You're like the guys in the City-vs-City forum who claim that Los Angeles is a more walkable, car-free city than Boston. Maybe you should have asked these guys where to play basketball.
There is no company basketball or softball team. Youth soccer leads the country by far in participation.
Yeah...that's because little girls like my niece get to run around in cute little knee-high socks and ribbons in her hair. The United States is full of teams like the one from that movie "Ladybugs" back in the 90s. Most kids play youth soccer and quit by the time they get to high school (if not sooner). Even I played youth soccer.
This article pretty much explains the development of soccer culture in the U.S. (minus the part about immigrants who do bring a true passion for the game to this country).
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Unlike most countries, in which soccer is played across all classes, soccer’s popularity in the 1970s and 80s was adopted by the middle class. Soccer was seen as friendlier than American football, more active than baseball, and had a certain European sophistication that led to its booming in many middle- and upper-middle class suburbs. In addition to the economic homogeneity, these suburbs were also mostly white. Soccer quickly became the rich white kids sport. Within these wealthy, white suburbs, soccer became uber-organized. In contrast to the pick-up games played across the world, soccer in the US was played in official practices and games.
This actually backs up one of my points. Soccer participation rates don't mean much of anything because the game is essentially another activity for kids to participate in...like playing the violin.
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According to a survey, 80-% of children at the age of 13 stop playing soccer.
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Despite the fact that children begin to play soccer at such a young age they also quit at a very young age.
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“All of my children have played, but I never did it for anything else other than an activity and exercise for them…it seemed like the easiest thing for them to do,” said Leeman.
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Yet, children seem to navigate to other interests once they hit teenaged years, thus contributing to the lack of mainstream popularity that professional soccer has in the United States.
[quote=BajanYankee;24894685]I did not dismiss them. I simply stated the fact that most Americans live east of the Mississippi River, which makes the eastern states as a whole more representative of America than the Pacific Northwest. There are more towns in the United States like Dayton, Ohio, Knoxville, Tennessee, or Greenville, South Carolina than there are like Seattle, Washington. That's a fact.
Yes, but the original discussion pointed out that a certain region of the country (the south) you would have trouble striking up a conversation about soccer with a random person in a bar. I simply countered that in other areas of the country you could easily do so. I have also struck up conversations randomly in Chicago and most recently right outside of Nashville, TN two weeks ago. By the way, one of my best friends is from Knoxville and soccer is actually pretty popular there. He has a big group of friends that come up once a year to catch an MLS game here since they dont have a team. Nashville is one of the biggest drawing cities when the National team plays there.
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Originally Posted by BajanYankee
LOL. I am from Philadelphia...born and raised. Soccer is not big in the region beyond youth leagues and some elite prep and public high schools. Besides, this is the city that produced Wilt Chamberlain, Kobe Bryant, Earl "The Pearl" Monroe, and Rasheed Wallace. And Julius Erving and Allen Iverson played their ball there. So no, soccer is a drop in the bucket compared to basketball. It ranks somewhere far behind basketball, football and baseball.
That doesnt change the fact that Philadelphia has some of the richest soccer history in the nation. One of the first ever professional soccer leagues to exist in this country were developed in Philly. I dont recall the name of it but here is actually an entire book on Philadelphia and soccer. Also, the Union have a higher attendance average than the 76ers. If soccer is not big in the region, why is that the case?
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Originally Posted by BajanYankee
Again, the question is whether more total soccer jerseys are sold than basketball jerseys. The University of North Carolina probably sells more jerseys in the U.S. than any soccer club. This is a football and basketball-dominated country.
No, it is a football and baseball dominated country. Basketball, soccer, hockey, NASCAR, and golf are all fighting for the entertainment dollar after that.
Did you know that in 2008 and 2009 when the recession occurred that the only professional sports teams in the U.S. that did not see a decline in season ticket sales were MLS teams? Not only did they not see a decline but they actually saw an increase in sales overall as a league whereas the NFL, MLB, and NBA saw steep declines.
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Originally Posted by BajanYankee
This is just funny. You're like the guys in the City-vs-City forum who claim that Los Angeles is a more walkable, car-free city than Boston. Maybe you should have asked these guys where to play basketball.
Laugh all you want but it's true. I go to local parks all the time either playing soccer or taking my kids to play and I rarely ever seen basketball courts being used for basketball. I am more likely to see kids playing kickball or soccer on them than basketball.
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Originally Posted by BajanYankee
Yeah...that's because little girls like my niece get to run around in cute little knee-high socks and ribbons in her hair. The United States is full of teams like the one from that movie "Ladybugs" back in the 90s. Most kids play youth soccer and quit by the time they get to high school (if not sooner). Even I played youth soccer.
Most kids quit everything but the time they hit high school including football, basketball, baseball, playing the drums, or whatever else they were into. It isnt just soccer that kids leave.
I'm not saying that soccer is more popular in this country than football, baseball, or basketball but rather that the gap is closing and much closer than you either realize or are willing to admit.
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