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That's quite a bold statement, considering that Real Madrid and Milan has more CL/European Cup victories together (17) than all English teams combined (12). But is the weakest PL team better than the weakest CL team? Definitely so.
The PL is a long run.. it probably feels more satisfying to win it in the end. But I definitely feel that quite a few people rate the CL above the PL. Although not the case for everyone of course
Look. I love soccer and I would be a fool if I don't follow the eurocup. It's a good tournament. But I like the games, don't care much about the winner. I don't think anybody in the world cares who wins it except Europeans. Still, what European teams really care about, as the rest of the world, is how they do in the WC.
Europe will never dominate football like you claim. Belgium came as the strongest candidate for the surprise of the tournament and yet, what did we see? Colombia in the highlights, not Belgium. The world is talking about James Rodrigues right now, not Shakiri? Shakira? Who cares?
Europe is dominating world football though? 3/3 last world cups won by European teams..
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Originally Posted by Indyking
England, Netherlands? England has not won anything since 1966!!!! And Netherlands is arguably the most failure football country in Europe, with so many good players in the past, never managed to win an WC.
But they are still traditional superpowers.. England maybe not any more, but you could same the same with Uruguay. That leaves just Argentina and Brazil in recent times (Argentina 28 years ago now though) to have won a WC from SA
Europe is dominating world football though? 3/3 last world cups won by European teams..
But they are still traditional superpowers.. England maybe not any more, but you could same the same with Uruguay. That leaves just Argentina and Brazil in recent times (Argentina 28 years ago now though) to have won a WC from SA
England is not equivalent to Uruguay, not even close, it's more like Ecuador really. Uruguay was in the semis in the 2010 WC, Forlan was the golden ball that year and they won the last Copa America, our equivalent to the Eurocup. Could you expect that from England? Never!
There is only 10 football federations in commebol (South America) while there are 3 times more in UEFA. UEFA has also 2 times more spots in the WC than commebol. When you take that into consideration and see what South American teams have accomplished in terms of WC wins and best players in the world, Europe football really sucks! Not to mention that most of the best players in the top European clubs these days are from South America.
England is not equivalent to Uruguay, not even close, it's more like Ecuador really. Uruguay was in the semis in the 2010 WC, Forlan was the golden ball that year and they won the last Copa America, our equivalent to the Eurocup. Could you expect that from England? Never!
There is only 10 football federations in commebol (South America) while there are 3 times more in UEFA. UEFA has also 2 times more spots in the WC than commebol. When you take that into consideration and see what South American teams have accomplished in terms of WC wins and best players in the world, Europe football really sucks! Not to mention that most of the best players in the top European clubs these days are from South America.
The Copa America is not really equivalent to the European Cup, though. Only really Brazil and Argentina are always the main contenders for it.. anyone else winning it is an upset.
Europe only has more spots than commebol because it has deserved them!
The PL is a long run.. it probably feels more satisfying to win it in the end. But I definitely feel that quite a few people rate the CL above the PL. Although not the case for everyone of course
Yes, probably, as the season is longer, but remember that the CL involves a lot of traveling, and playing like in -10C in Moscow in December. Also the teams can be very different, instead of the familiar ones you encounter in the PL every single year. So it's tougher in a different way.
Yes, probably, as the season is longer, but remember that the CL involves a lot of traveling, and playing like in -10C in Moscow in December. Also the teams can be very different, instead of the familiar ones you encounter in the PL every single year. So it's tougher in a different way.
That's probably true.. especially as Atletico probably did not expect to win it last season.
If you're in a league where the title is a two horse race most seasons, like La Liga used to be, and also the Bundesliga.. then I think the CL becomes slightly more prestigious to those clubs expected to win the league
The Copa America is not really equivalent to the European Cup, though. Only really Brazil and Argentina are always the main contenders for it.. anyone else winning it is an upset.
Europe only has more spots than commebol because it has deserved them!
You really live in your European football shell like the other one here, don't you? Uruguay winning a Copa America is not an upset at all! So, in reality, there are 3 out of 10 teams that can win, 30%!!! Well, never mind that, do you think Colombia or Chile winning would be an upset? No way. Plus, we don't need qualifiers!
Now, do the math for the Eurocup! Like I said, European football, when you start analyzing the facts, it really sucks!!! We should have no business trying to compete with you guys, yet we do it very well, don't we?
What European club is fighting right now with million of euros for James Rodrigues? We rule men, just face it. South America had and will keep being the joy of football. What would be of the European league without our players? Crap, pure, indisputable baloney.
Just look at the WC, don't need to go any far than that. Remind us what percentage of top tier European teams failed to qualify to the knockout stage compared to South Americans! It's ridiculous.
Woah that's a bit harsh Indy! South American teams are amazing but Europe has the strongest; Germany, Netherlands, Spain and France for starters. Colombia just recently became hot after decades of being a crappy team. Chile has always been mediocre and it's only been in this WC that they've excelled. Brazil has been royally spanked by Germany and the Dutch.
Woah that's a bit harsh Indy! South American teams are amazing but Europe has the strongest; Germany, Netherlands, Spain and France for starters. Colombia just recently became hot after decades of being a crappy team. Chile has always been mediocre and it's only been in this WC that they've excelled. Brazil has been royally spanked by Germany and the Dutch.
Argentina is the only one left standing.
Maybe so, but look what they are saying as if Europe is the center of the football world. It's just not true. I wish foreign players would be banned to play in Europe, their European leagues would be nothing. South America still generates the best players in the world.
Actually, winning the EURO is more difficult than the World Cup, especially when it was a 16 or even 8 team tournament. No Algerias, South Koreas and Cameroons in the EURO Cup.
I would say getting out of the group stage in the EURO is harder (or at least it was before the expansion) because there are more groups of death. Even a great team like Germany crashed in the group stage as recently as 2000 and 2004, even though they were runner-up in the 2002 WC. Then again, the EURO has one KO round less and it doesn't have two of the best football countries in the world, Brazil and Argentina, so I can't quite say it's on par with the World Cup. There is less room for upsets in the WC, I don't think second tier teams like Greece or Denmark will ever win it.
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Originally Posted by Indyking
South America won almost half of all WCs. South America players dominate the best player of the world award for how long now? Almost forever, really.
Correction: Brazil and Argentina have won almost half of all WCs. Uruguay won in 1930 and 1950, when football was still in its infancy and the WC was nowhere near as professional as it is now. The rest of South America has accomplished nothing. Ecuador's best ever performance? Round of 16 in 2006. Paraguy reached the QF in 2010 but crashed in the group stage in 5 of its 8 WC appearances. Dito for Colombia, they made it to the QF for the first time in their history this WC but crashed out in the group stage in 3 of its 5 WC appearances. Chile once won third place when they hosted the WC in 1962 but never got past the Round of 16 since then.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Indyking
You are the one who knows nothing about football, or have you not noticed that in the WC there are always quite a few teams in the quarters (best 8) that aren't Europeans or South Americans. Heck, there had been even teams in the semis that aren't from Europe or South America. Oh, here is where your argument goes completely into the "video game football kinda of fan" category: England, Spain and Italy did not even make it out of the group stage in the WC and do I have to remind you that their groups had plenty of teams outside Europe?
Like I said, big teams often crash in the group stage of the EURO as well. Just some examples:
Germany: 1984, 2000, 2004. Germany was a WC runner-up in 1982, 1986 and 2002
Netherlands: 1980, 2012. Netherlands was a WC runner-up in 1978 and 2010, bronze medalist in 2014
Italy: 1996, 2004. Italy was a WC runner-up in 1994 and won the WC in 2006
France: 1992, 2008. France was a WC runner-up in 2006.
Spain: 1980, 1988, 2004. Spain were WC QF in 1986 and 2002.
When teams are put in a group of death, as Spain, England and Italy were this time, some are bound not to survive. I'm almost certain that Spain would have made it out of any other group. Italy is pretty hit-and-miss and England just isn't an elite team in Europe anymore. Then again, Europe has enough depth to make up for any teams that fail to live up to expectations and we dominated the final rounds of the WC as usual.
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Originally Posted by Indyking
Germany is the only European team who has won a WC in SA.
Finally, ask any Spain fan if they would trade their 2 eurocup trophies for another WC win; they all would say YES, no hesitation, just like my close Spanish friend did when I asked him.
But that's a pretty meaningless statistic considering the last time the WC was hosted in South America before Germany's win was in 1986. Football was very different back then, players weren't used to travel as extensively and play in different environments. The last two World Cups have shown than in our modern globalized world, the location of the WC has little impact on the performance of the real football powers.
By the way, I could also say that the last time a South American team won the WC on European soil was in 1958
As for Spanish fans willing to trade two EURO titles for one WC title, I doubt it. But hey, you have a Spanish friend that told you so so it must be true.
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Originally Posted by Indyking
Europe could never have a player like Pele, Maradona or Messi. They don't know what jogo bonito is. Will never know.
And you say you're not anti-European I happen to think Cruijff is on the same level as Pele and Maradona. Who are you to say he isn't?
What South American countries are playing jogo bonito these days? The only country that comes close is Chile. Give me Germany or France over Argentina or Brazil any day.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Indyking
Look. I love soccer and I would be a fool if I don't follow the eurocup. It's a good tournament. But I like the games, don't care much about the winner. I don't think anybody in the world cares who wins it except Europeans. Still, what European teams really care about, as the rest of the world, is how they do in the WC.
We care about both. The WC is ahead of the EURO but only slightly.
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Europe will never dominate football like you claim. Belgium came as the strongest candidate for the surprise of the tournament and yet, what did we see? Colombia in the highlights, not Belgium. The world is talking about James Rodrigues right now, not Shakiri? Shakira? Who cares?
We already dominate football and have for decades. Since the World Cup was expanded to 32 teams, 14 out of 20 semi-finalists were European and 4 out of 5 winners were European. More importantly, these 4 winners were all different countries (France, Italy, Spain, Germany) which reflects the depth in UEFA.
Shaqiri plays for Switzerland, not Belgium. And Colombia was just as hyped up before the WC as Belgium was.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Indyking
England, Netherlands? England has not won anything since 1966!!!! And Netherlands is arguably the most failure football country in Europe, with so many good players in the past, never managed to win an WC.
The Netherlands has accomplished far more in the past 50 years than ANY South American country bar BRA/ARG has. So if we're a football failure, what does that say about South America?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Indyking
There is only 10 football federations in commebol (South America) while there are 3 times more in UEFA. UEFA has also 2 times more spots in the WC than commebol. When you take that into consideration and see what South American teams have accomplished in terms of WC wins and best players in the world, Europe football really sucks!
UEFA has 54 members. If course, many of them are smaller nations that have no hope of qualifying for a WC. It's only the first and second (and sometimes third) tier that is relevant in the context of the WC.
I don't know how you can possibly come to the conclusion that "Europe football really sucks" when 14 out of 20 semi-finalists have been European in the modern WC. When you go back to the format of 24 teams, this number increases to 27 out of 36 semi-finalists. Moreover, these European semi-finalists came from 13 (!) different countries so they're not riding the coat tails of one or two elite teams in their confederation like South America is.
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Not to mention that most of the best players in the top European clubs these days are from South America.
You can't possibly believe that. If you do, have a look at the rosters of all the major European clubs and you'll see that South Americans are vastly outnumbered.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Indyking
You really live in your European football shell like the other one here, don't you? Uruguay winning a Copa America is not an upset at all! So, in reality, there are 3 out of 10 teams that can win, 30%!!! Plus, we don't need qualifiers!
Now, do the math for the Eurocup! Like I said, European football, when you start analyzing the facts, it really sucks!!! We should have no business trying to compete with you guys, yet we do it very well, don't we?
But you said yourself in another thread that the major South American countries don't take the Copa America seriously. In that context, of course it's not an upset when a team other than BRA/ARG wins the cup. I'd love to see them repeat that performance in the WC though.
For the EURO it would be something like 5/16 that have a realistic chance of winning the EURO (Germany, Netherlands, France, Italy, Spain) and then a few countries that have a chance of getting deep in the tournament (Belgium, Croatia, Portugal, England). So that would also be around 30%. And I like the fact that we have qualifiers, that way we won't have the same old teams participating every time
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What European club is fighting right now with million of euros for James Rodrigues? We rule men, just face it. South America had and will keep being the joy of football. What would be of the European league without our players? Crap, pure, indisputable baloney.
Yet more anti-European drivel. European leagues would lose some quality without South American input but there are still plenty of talented players from Europe and Africa to produce quality teams. Our leagues don't revolve around South American players, lol. Bayern Munich has 2 South American players in its roster compared to 22 Europeans. Manchester United has 5 South American players in its roster compared to 30 Europeans. Barcelona has 8 South Americans on its roster compared to 15 Europeans. Real Madrid has 3 South Americans on its roster compared to 21 Europeans. And these are the big clubs, the smaller ones have even less foreign input. I think we'll survive without you
If anything, it's quite telling that all the half decent South American players flock to Europe as soon as they get the chance.
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I happen to think Cruijff is on the same level as Pele and Maradona. Who are you to say he isn't? 
