Is St. Louis a Southern city? (Kansas City, Lee's Summit: lawsuit, relocate, cars)

[WILWRadio]

I guess if you want to be technical the entire USA is the south if you live in Canada. LOL

I have family and friends from the south. I can't think of one single person that even considers MO a southern state let alone St. Louis a southern city. They are not.

[Dawn10am]

Originally Posted by STLviaMSP

Again, why are the southern nationalists so intent on dragging down STL's reputation and the state's reputation by aligning us with the south? **** that, and GO AWAY.

Alright, I normally agree with most of what you say but I've held my tongue on this for far too long. The South really isn't as bad as you make it out to be. Not everyone down there is a knuckle-dragging conservative fundie. It's a lot more nuanced and dynamic than you probably realize. There are a lot of people, especially in the larger cities, who are just as sophisticated and progressive as anywhere else in the country and who are actively trying to improve the South. And, let's be honest with ourselves, the Southern cities are doing a lot more cool, progressive things than Midwestern ones right now and are generally wealthier and more dynamic. I think if you spent more time down there and actually got to know the South you wouldn't have such a strong knee-jerk reaction to any mention of it.

[mjtinmemphis]

Originally Posted by Dawn10am

Alright, I normally agree with most of what you say but I've held my tongue on this for far too long. The South really isn't as bad as you make it out to be. Not everyone down there is a knuckle-dragging conservative fundie. It's a lot more nuanced and dynamic than you probably realize. There are a lot of people, especially in the larger cities, who are just as sophisticated and progressive as anywhere else in the country and who are actively trying to improve the South. And, let's be honest with ourselves, the Southern cities are doing a lot more cool, progressive things than Midwestern ones right now and are generally wealthier and more dynamic. I think if you spent more time down there and actually got to know the South you wouldn't have such a strong knee-jerk reaction to any mention of it.

You hit the nail on the head. Too many in Chicago and other big cities actually believe they are better, smarter and greater than anyone in the South. With that being said, I don't remember seeing that attitude in St. Louis.

I have a preference for urban cites in the Midwest or East coast. That doesn't mean the cities are superior it's just my preference.

[goat314]

I'm all for classifying St. Louis as a border city, but I'm still confused why people some say St. Louis has a Southern look or feel. I've traveled all around the country and I've invited many of my friends from around the country to St. Louis (including many Southerners) and nobody ever says St. Louis feels Southern. Now a lot Chicago folks have called it slow, folksy, family oriented, small but they even admit that its a through and through Midwestern city. When my relatives come up from Nashville and Kentucky they think people in St. Louis are rude, slick, fast talkers, houses to close together, too hurried, too many hi rises, too much brick, industrial, cold. So I think it is a matter of perception. I'm sure Carlito really does see things in St. Louis that remind him of Memphis, just as people from St. Louis see things in Chicago or Kansas City. I don't think we should automatically discount his experience, but I will say that St. Louis is on a whole different bracket as far as urbanity, size, and pace than Memphis. St. Louis also has historically modeled itself after Northern cities and culture to build inspiration from. I'm sure most true Southerners would consider St. Louis a Yankee town. How many southern cities the size of St. Louis has a downtown subway for god sake. There is also nothing in a place like Memphis that compares to Clayton, Central West End, Skinker-D, The Loop, The Grove, Soulard, Lafayette Square, Cherokee St. etc. etc. etc. St. Louis just has a different flavor that's more distinctively more Northern than Southern.

[goat314]

Originally Posted by mjtinmemphis

You hit the nail on the head. Too many in Chicago and other big cities actually believe they are better, smarter and greater than anyone in the South. With that being said, I don't remember seeing that attitude in St. Louis.

I have a preference for urban cites in the Midwest or East coast. That doesn't mean the cities are superior it's just my preference.

I agree, you can see that reflected on city-data. Where someone from Minneapolis thinks St. Louis and Cincinnati are Southern and "inferior" cities in comparison to Minneapolis, because of geographical latitude. Or East Coasters giving people from Baltimore and Washington DC a hard time about their border city status. People not wanting to give Houston, Dallas, Atlanta their rightful place among America's "true" big cities. Not realizing that many cities in the sunbelt are rapidly catching up and even surpassing many "older" cities that have rested on their laurels.

St. Louis is kind of funny place. You definitely wont find the chest thumping here and in some ways its a fresh breath of air, but in other ways it can be the city dangerously complacent.

[Dawn10am]

Originally Posted by goat314

When my relatives come up from Nashville and Kentucky they think people in St. Louis are rude, slick, fast talkers, houses to close together, too hurried, too many hi rises, too much brick, industrial, cold. So I think it is a matter of perception.

SO true! And my relatives are from Memphis, the city that St. Louis is supposedly so similar to. It is all about perception. I don't think any true Southerner would ever, ever claim that St. Louis is Southern.

[zach_33]

Originally Posted by Dawn10am

There are a lot of people, especially in the larger cities, who are just as sophisticated and progressive as anywhere else in the country.

While I agree with this statement, the south as a whole still lags severely on socially progressive values. Just look at the voting records. As a firm believer in social equality and freedom of choice, expression, and intellectual pursuit, I'm appalled by some of the positions supported by elected officials down there. On the other hand, I have friends, colleagues, and acquanitances who share my values that live in the South, so I sort of get your point.

[STLviaMSP]

Most improvements in the south are almost certainly the result of Northern transplants moving for work as companies headquarter there for the tax benefits of being in states run by people with no concept of the social contract. New people bring ideas that don't suck. And yes, there is a small contingent of progressives in the south, and I admire their tenacity, but the fact is southern politics are a joke and will continue to be a joke for the forseeable future, or until the cities get big enough to turn the tide.

[Dawn10am]

Originally Posted by STLviaMSP

Most improvements in the south are almost certainly the result of Northern transplants moving for work as companies headquarter there for the tax benefits of being in states run by people with no concept of the social contract. New people bring ideas that don't suck. And yes, there is a small contingent of progressives in the south, and I admire their tenacity, but the fact is southern politics are a joke and will continue to be a joke for the forseeable future, or until the cities get big enough to turn the tide.

Maybe, but all of the progressives I know in the South are born and bred Southerners rather than carpetbaggers. I actually went to a very progressive liberal arts college in ARKANSAS for undergrad, and about 90% of the people there were also from the South. Surprised? We are capable of producing sophisticated people and affecting positive change ourselves, you know.

[Dawn10am]

Originally Posted by zach_33

While I agree with this statement, the south as a whole still lags severely on socially progressive values. Just look at the voting records. As a firm believer in social equality and freedom of choice, expression, and intellectual pursuit, I'm appalled by some of the positions supported by elected officials down there. On the other hand, I have friends, colleagues, and acquanitances who share my values that live in the South, so I sort of get your point.

I'm appalled by some of the positions supported by elected officials in the Midwest, frankly. We have the Midwest to thank for the likes of Michele Bachmann, Paul Ryan, Todd Aiken, and Tim Huelskamp, among others. It's not as black and white as a lot of people make it out to be.