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That being said, I agree with you regarding Miner. To any objective observer, Miner is playing favorites with COR and two or three other small developers. I can understand and even respect her position regarding Congel as he never delivered on his promises and built what resembles an ugly prison with a lot of average stores as opposed to destination retailers like Cabela's, Crate & Barrel, REI, Nordstrom, Von Maur, at al. While I agree with her position toward Congel, she is being very disingenuous. Instead of aggressively courting outside developers, investors, and companies without incestuous political ties to do business in Syracuse, she has created what appears to be a list of "approved" developers. COR, Bob Doucette, and Joseph Hucko are highly favored developers who do not face criticism for requesting generous tax abatements and grants. They can promise street level retail and all of the great amenities that go with "sustainable" urban development an then stick an ad agency on the ground floor, as Hucko did with Jefferson Clinton Commons. Developer Bob Doucette, a key Miner supporter was offered several million dollars in state grants in 2012 to redevelop the derelict Sibley's building into first floor retail, market rate apartments and office space. That project appears to have gone nowhere and that building continues to be a major blight on downtown Syracuse. What's more, a Brooklyn slumlord owns a slew of rundown buildings on S. Warren Street, S. Salina Street, and W. Jefferson Street. He now owes well over $100,000 in back property taxes dating back to 2008, yet Miner has done nothing to seize these buildings which are largely vacant and include 499 S. Warren Street. Unlike some other properties, the buildings owned by the Brooklyn slumlord are small and would not involve substantial investment to renovate. They are located close to the court house and other major points of interest.
I don't think the hotel should receive a 20 year tax exemption. I would support giving them a sales tax exemption on materials but only if they changed the design of the hotel. As proposed, it's an eyesore that looks like one of those 1960s built high-rise hotels in places like Daytona Beach and Las Vegas that are now without national flags and are home to the homeless thanks to social services grants. The design is very consistent with the institutional-like appearance of the mall with few windows and lots of white concrete. If approved as is, that hotel will be a major blight on the entire area and will be seen by hundreds of thousands of people each day.
That being said, I agree with you regarding Miner. To any objective observer, Miner is playing favorites with COR and two or three other small developers. I can understand and even respect her position regarding Congel as he never delivered on his promises and built what resembles an ugly prison with a lot of average stores as opposed to destination retailers like Cabela's, Crate & Barrel, REI, Nordstrom, Von Maur, at al. While I agree with her position toward Congel, she is being very disingenuous. Instead of aggressively courting outside developers, investors, and companies without incestuous political ties to do business in Syracuse, she has created what appears to be a list of "approved" developers. COR, Bob Doucette, and Joseph Hucko are highly favored developers who do not face criticism for requesting generous tax abatements and grants. They can promise street level retail and all of the great amenities that go with "sustainable" urban development an then stick an ad agency on the ground floor, as Hucko did with Jefferson Clinton Commons. Developer Bob Doucette, a key Miner supporter was offered several million dollars in state grants in 2012 to redevelop the derelict Sibley's building into first floor retail, market rate apartments and office space. That project appears to have gone nowhere and that building continues to be a major blight on downtown Syracuse. What's more, a Brooklyn slumlord owns a slew of rundown buildings on S. Warren Street, S. Salina Street, and W. Jefferson Street. He now owes well over $100,000 in back property taxes dating back to 2008, yet Miner has done nothing to seize these buildings which are largely vacant and include 499 S. Warren Street. Unlike some other properties, the buildings owned by the Brooklyn slumlord are small and would not involve substantial investment to renovate. They are located close to the court house and other major points of interest.
In the early 2000s, COR convinced OCIDA to put the former Fayetteville Mall into an empire zone so the developer could receive some very lucrative tax breaks for redeveloping that ailing property, which included a PILOT. In addition, COR already received several million dollars in state funding to redevelop the former Kennedy Square site, but has done nothing except demolish public housing structures. In 2011, COR unveiled an ambitious plan for the site that included market rate housing, retail, and office space. Now more than 3 years later, the site remains vacant. Despite COR putting its Syracuse projects on the back burner, they've gone full steam ahead with a Watertown mixed-use development at the former Mercy Hospital. While most of us agree Syracuse is facing some major economic challenges, its a much larger city than Watertown and has an economic base that could support far better support a mixed-use downtown project. That's why COR's inability to move both Lougen Crossing and the Inner Harbor projects forward is very disappointing. The renderings of the Watertown project look shockingly similar to the Inner Harbor and Lougen's Crossing.
I think a part of this is due to the leadership in Watertown, as I think Mayor Jeff Graham would welcome such projects and Jefferson County has actually seen some population growth in recent years due to growth at Fort Drum, along with some private companies(NY Air Brake, Car Freshener Company, Stream, etc.) as well.
Just caught it. I was wondering why Wilmorite (or "Syrwil") was still listed as the owner on the property tax website. A redeveloped Hotel Syracuse and Sibley's building could have really transformed Salina Street. Unless both of those vacant buildings are redeveloped, I just don't see downtown Syracuse being able to sustain the current level of investment or population growth, which when compared to peer cities like Hartford, New Haven, Springfield, MA, Providence, Little Rock and Dayton is still rather modest.
Adding to these problems is the revelation earlier this year that the proposal for the City to sell the tax delinquent former NYNEX Building to a Syracuse developer was in limbo thanks to an eleventh hour bankruptcy filing by the Brooklyn slumlord who acquired the long vacant office tower.
I don't know enough information to blame Miner for either of these two failures. By all accounts, this is the consequence of being in a no-growth, economically depressed region with little to no demand for office and retail space. Add in some notoriously risk adverse lending institutions who seem very unwilling to lend to city development projects and out-of-town slumlords attracted by "cheap" properties you have a recipe for disaster. It's funny, Buffalo, Rochester, Troy and even the especially pathetic Niagara Falls are suffering from the same harsh economic realties and demographic changes as Syracuse. The only difference is that Cuomo has a voracious appetite to dump hundreds of millions of state taxpayer dollars to assist very similar projects in those cities. Although routinely underreported, Rochester received a very large grant to redevelop the Midtown Plaza area, a project that is now gaining some serious traction thanks to state funding.
Just caught it. I was wondering why Wilmorite (or "Syrwil") was still listed as the owner on the property tax website. A redeveloped Hotel Syracuse and Sibley's building could have really transformed Salina Street. Unless both of those vacant buildings are redeveloped, I just don't see downtown Syracuse being able to sustain the current level of investment or population growth, which when compared to peer cities like Hartford, New Haven, Springfield, MA, Providence, Little Rock and Dayton is still rather modest.
Adding to these problems is the revelation earlier this year that the proposal for the City to sell the tax delinquent former NYNEX Building to a Syracuse developer was in limbo thanks to an eleventh hour bankruptcy filing by the Brooklyn slumlord who acquired the long vacant office tower.
I don't know enough information to blame Miner for either of these two failures. By all accounts, this is the consequence of being in a no-growth, economically depressed region with little to no demand for office and retail space. Add in some notoriously risk adverse lending institutions who seem very unwilling to lend to city development projects and out-of-town slumlords attracted by "cheap" properties you have a recipe for disaster. It's funny, Buffalo, Rochester, Troy and even the especially pathetic Niagara Falls are suffering from the same harsh economic realties and demographic changes as Syracuse. The only difference is that Cuomo has a voracious appetite to dump hundreds of millions of state taxpayer dollars to assist very similar projects in those cities. Although routinely underreported, Rochester received a very large grant to redevelop the Midtown Plaza area, a project that is now gaining some serious traction thanks to state funding.
I still say that the Sibley's Building would be better served as a store and I know that I've mentioned this department store many times, but a Boscov's similar to the one in Binghamton would be a great addition to Downtown. Boscov's Binghamton
There are also the Addis Company and Goldberg's/Fleischmann's Furniture Buildings in that area that could be put to good use. I also wonder about the plan for apartments at 500 South Salina Street/former Chimes Building too.
I still say that the Sibley's Building would be better served as a store and I know that I've mentioned this department store many times, but a Boscov's similar to the one in Binghamton would be a great addition to Downtown. Boscov's Binghamton
There are also the Addis Company and Goldberg's/Fleischmann's Furniture Buildings in that area that could be put to good use. I also wonder about the plan for apartments at 500 South Salina Street/former Chimes Building too.
It's sad to see the how neglected the Addis building looks in the photo. They should have also included photos of the building facade which has some amazing architectural details. I driven past the Boscov's store in downtown Bingo. That city is very lucky to still have a department store. Unfortunately, I don't think that chain is doing very well and doubt they would be willing to open a new store in a very competitive market like Syracuse. I agree that the Sibley's building would make a great department store space once again. Even a Marshall's coupled with a few co-tenants like Five Below and a small Top's grocery store would make a nice addition to downtown.
It's sad to see the how neglected the Addis building looks in the photo. They should have also included photos of the building facade which has some amazing architectural details. I driven past the Boscov's store in downtown Bingo. That city is very lucky to still have a department store. Unfortunately, I don't think that chain is doing very well and doubt they would be willing to open a new store in a very competitive market like Syracuse. I agree that the Sibley's building would make a great department store space once again. Even a Marshall's coupled with a few co-tenants like Five Below and a small Top's grocery store would make a nice addition to downtown.
I agree that a solid department store like Marshall's, along with a few other store and a grocery store would make more sense for that building. I've also thought about Green Hills as another grocery store that could work due to already operating out of a building/space that would be a good fit for a Downtown market. I almost liken the Sibley's Building to what Fairmount Fair was during the 1990's, when it was in limbo.
After looking at the Addis Company listing, I'm surprised that they didn't show the facade, as the photos don't show the potential for the building nor do they do it any justice. With that said, it is a shame that it hasn't been picked up by now.
Last edited by ckhthankgod; 03-27-2014 at 07:33 AM..
I don't know enough information to blame Miner for either of these two failures. By all accounts, this is the consequence of being in a no-growth, economically depressed region with little to no demand for office and retail space. Add in some notoriously risk adverse lending institutions who seem very unwilling to lend to city development projects and out-of-town slumlords attracted by "cheap" properties you have a recipe for disaster. It's funny, Buffalo, Rochester, Troy and even the especially pathetic Niagara Falls are suffering from the same harsh economic realties and demographic changes as Syracuse. The only difference is that Cuomo has a voracious appetite to dump hundreds of millions of state taxpayer dollars to assist very similar projects in those cities. Although routinely underreported, Rochester received a very large grant to redevelop the Midtown Plaza area, a project that is now gaining some serious traction thanks to state funding.
Sad to read about the NYNEX and Sibley's building. I don't think one can blame Miner for this, it seems that the circumstances of both buildings have more to do with litigation than economic development. Most of which (as you point out) resulting from "out of town slumlords attracted to cheap properties standing in the way of the later. From what I have read, I think the City is doing everything it can to take ownership of these properties. I agree, that Apple, Google, Yahoo, etc. are not knocking on Syracuse's door, but investment in downtown Syracuse has been relatively strong over the last few years, i.e. residential conversions, new retailers like Urban Outfitters, Lululemon, Marriot, WCNY, etc. Depending how you define downtown, you could throw in the inner-harbor development. I could agree with your assessment if there were no one interested in either property and the City was seeking an RFP for their re-development, but it seems that there are tangible plans for their development by local developers. I think the underlying revelation is both buildings (and one could argue the City) are victimized by out of town slumlords, courts (Brooklyn), and lending institutions, etc. that could care less about Syracuse or its future. The good news is, local developers are interested in both properties and need to the former to get out of the way.
Last edited by urbanplanner; 03-27-2014 at 10:34 AM..
Interesting project, it seems there is a ring of small urban villages emerging around Syracuse, i.e. Baldwinsville, Fayetteville, Marcellus, Manlius, etc. and now Liverpool that embrace mixed-use development and new urban concepts. I remember this project being talked about some time ago, but nothing concrete as now proposed. I think a hotel was part of the initial concept, could be wrong though. Look forward to seeing this project come to life.
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