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Dallas has a tremendous advantage over Houston pertaining to its traditional iconic retail. I didn't say luxury. For example, in East Dallas, one has the Lakewood Shopping Center, the Aboretum Village, Casa Linda Plaza, and the Hillside Shopping Center.
My idea is to organize the city into shopping districts instead of thinking individual shopping centers in order to get shoppers to think in those terms. Four busses would start off at each shopping center circling stopping for two hours at each shopping center for a round trip total of eight hours.
Each bus would be manned with a driver and a "bus line stewardess." It would be proper to tip them at the end of the day.
The route taken is a convenient loop.
The bus line steward or stewardess would second as a tour guide.
The shopping centers would flip for the expense.
Northpark Center, Preston Center, Inwood Village, and Snider Plaza also form a convenient district to loop around. If Northpark Center isn't interested, then include the Shops at Park Lane.
The point here is that mass transit doesn't always have to be public.
This idea has great potential to work in Dallas.
He keeps missing the point that the vast majority of sunbelt growth has been suburban. I won't praise or put down any city in this regard. It has been throughout. Very very few new residents have been to more dense areas in all Texas cities because those areas are still often more convenient with a car. So, if you are going to be driving anyway, why limit yourself?
The focus should have been on the pockets of density already developing and help them develop even more.
Focusing on downtown/ Uptown Dallas and all the surrounding areas would have made for an extremely car- independent core. From there , commuter lines from the core (whether bus or rail) could develop to connect suburban residents to the core.
Dallas's blessing is the richness of midsized cities all around it. But that blessing is also a curse. They help Dallas make it but also, their pride hinders Dallas from making. The blessing being that the collective enables Dallas to brag about having a million miles of rail. The curse being that the prideful nature of these suburban cities in not wanting to be left out hindered Dallas from solidifying it's core. Every member city wants its rail and they would rather not let Dallas make it before getting theirs.
Another issue is that DFW employment centers are well spread across the metro which results in less congested roads than Houston. With these employment centers we'll spread, and a massive highway system to serve the spread, DFW can gain 5M more people without a budge on DART’S ridership #s.
To increase DART’S ridership you are going to have to focus on TOD'S, but DART is adding rail miles faster than demand so it's ridership #s suffer.
There will always be demand for the sort of life offered by Uptown Dallas, but with the jobs growing to the west and to the north, there will be a greater demand for living near those areas.
Houston is not immune. Lots of jobs are heading in all directions, but the bullseye is still on Houston with the 3 biggest employment centers being downtown, TMC and Uptown and other top 10 markets like greenway are in the loop too.
It is easier for Houston to develop corridors of density because of the setup. The layout is there, but the hindrance is the affluent neighborhoods subliminal racial concerns and Republicans stirring up those concerns. Not gonna sugarcoat it, but white residents in Houston's core didn't want to make it easier for 'those' types of people to infiltrate their neighborhood.
Federal funding for rail was approved for Houston in the 90s but the Republicans blocked it and the Funding was transferred to Dallas. In 2003, Houstonians voted for rail expansion, but delay overrode the voters wishes and blocked tge expansion. The Bush administration for some reason blocked rail expansion in Houston for 5 years. It wasn't until Obama was elected that the ban was lifted, paving the way for 2 more rail lines. By then costs were super inflated and concerns about routes still existed.
Not sure if yall know this. But the Republicans in the US House of Representatives actually had a bill blocking rail in Houston. https://www.planetizen.com/node/4376
Despite local, state and national Republicans putting the squeeze on Houston while boosting Dallas, Houston still keeps trucking along. That's why I support Houston stronger than other Texas cities. I love an underdog.
Yep, all of this. The problem now is that rail is ridiculously expensive, and the political battles set the city back so now there's a bit of a frankenstein system developing that didn't really have to be that way. For example, the Green/Purple line really should be extended west into Rice Military/Washington Ave and head to Northwest TC, but instead, we're going to get the Katy line with a different terminus. I'm sure the political battles of the last 20 years scared Metro off from even proposing such an idea though. And to be honest, the Green/Purple lines should have probably been built as BRT in the first place.
Regardless, Metro is at least trying to connect the places where the people are with fast, reliable transit. They've made some mistakes mostly forced by politics (e.g. the previously mentioned Green/Purple/Katy line designs), but they've been pretty smart overall playing the cards they've been dealt. DART is trying to fix some of the mistakes of the past, but just like in Houston politics (the suburbs) gets in the way.
It's been half a century since DART was established. In that period of time, the population of DFW quadrupled.
If DART failed to capture market share in a market that grew 400%, it's never going to. Your growth projections mean absolutely nothing, they do NOT reflect consumer preference.
So keep funding DART out of your own pocket if you think it's a worthwhile venture.
He'll never get it. He CAN'T lose. His precious big shiny train just MUST be efficient, lol. Even if it takes 500 years, it MUST WIN!
He'll never get it. He CAN'T lose. His precious big shiny train just MUST be efficient, lol. Even if it takes 500 years, it MUST WIN!
Clearly. Funny how none of the people who think choo choo trains are the greatest thing since sliced bread are willing to put their own money behind it. That goes for everyone at every level of government and their blind fans.
At least the private operators who built the original NYC subway system before MTA took it over and ran it into the ground or the investors behind BrightLine put their own money where their mouths are and built it out of their own pockets.
Yep, all of this. The problem now is that rail is ridiculously expensive, and the political battles set the city back so now there's a bit of a frankenstein system developing that didn't really have to be that way. For example, the Green/Purple line really should be extended west into Rice Military/Washington Ave and head to Northwest TC, but instead, we're going to get the Katy line with a different terminus. I'm sure the political battles of the last 20 years scared Metro off from even proposing such an idea though. And to be honest, the Green/Purple lines should have probably been built as BRT in the first place.
Regardless, Metro is at least trying to connect the places where the people are with fast, reliable transit. They've made some mistakes mostly forced by politics (e.g. the previously mentioned Green/Purple/Katy line designs), but they've been pretty smart overall playing the cards they've been dealt. DART is trying to fix some of the mistakes of the past, but just like in Houston politics (the suburbs) gets in the way.
+1...I TOTALLY AGREE with the bolded.
Quote:
Originally Posted by spacecitytx
He'll never get it. He CAN'T lose. His precious big shiny train just MUST be efficient, lol. Even if it takes 500 years, it MUST WIN!
OMG!!......You sound so bitter......You have to understand at least a spoonful of what I said about timelines when it comes to transit.....DART makes mistakes.... and EVERY other system in this country....The good thing is..there's PLENTY of time to CORRECT these early mistakes...
It could take 5 years or maybe 30...It's in place already. So it's not going anywhere for at least 100 years....
Is Dallas gonna stay EXACTLY the same for the next 100 years???.........It would have to for these complaints to be worthy of concern.....These things will naturally be corrected or aggressively corrected............Whichever one actually happens really doesn't matter because the word CORRECTED is in both scenarios.
OMG!!......You sound so bitter......You have to understand at least a spoonful of what I said about timelines when it comes to transit.....DART makes mistakes.... and EVERY other system in this country....The good thing is..there's PLENTY of time to CORRECT these early mistakes...
It could take 5 years or maybe 30...It's in place already. So it's not going anywhere for at least 100 years....
Is Dallas gonna stay EXACTLY the same for the next 100 years???.........It would have to for these complaints to be worthy of concern.....These things will naturally be corrected or aggressively corrected............Whichever one actually happens really doesn't matter because the word CORRECTED is in both scenarios.
When you make the same mistakes for 70 years, generally the "correction" of those mistakes is that someone gets fired or investors pull the plug on you.
How much of your own money are you personally investing DART? After all, they've made mistakes but they'll fix it right?
OMG!!......You sound so bitter......You have to understand at least a spoonful of what I said about timelines when it comes to transit.....DART makes mistakes.... and EVERY other system in this country....The good thing is..there's PLENTY of time to CORRECT these early mistakes...
It could take 5 years or maybe 30...It's in place already. So it's not going anywhere for at least 100 years....
Is Dallas gonna stay EXACTLY the same for the next 100 years???.........It would have to for these complaints to be worthy of concern.....These things will naturally be corrected or aggressively corrected............Whichever one actually happens really doesn't matter because the word CORRECTED is in both scenarios.
Your line of thinking is way off base. You're deceiving yourself into believing in something that may or may not come to pass.
As plenty of people stated earlier, projects like ANY rail system isn't built for "what's to come"...it's built to make money NOW. Any corrections and adjustments that come later with a growing population will happen as it progresses.
You've tricked yourself into believing that DFW PURPOSELY built the largest rail system in Texas in the hopes that it will be worth it 100 years later. You BLINDLY believe it, even though if it ever DOES come to pass, it won't be in our lifetimes. That's not the way business works, my guy. But at least you believe in something.
When you make the same mistakes for 70 years, generally the "correction" of those mistakes is that someone gets fired or investors pull the plug on you.
How much of your own money are you personally investing DART? After all, they've made mistakes but they'll fix it right?
Dart has had to fulfill obligations to the suburbs that paid taxes into their system. Houston Metro doesn't have those obligations. For example, Addison has been standing at the end of the line for years now in order to get that Silver Line service.
In the long run, I think having an extensive rail system of many kinds of rail is going to help Dallas and North Texas fetch more tourist dollars. Riding on a bus is boring in comparison. Will people vacation to see the world's largest freeway loop? Will tourists venture to Houston to check out its modern computer controlled traffic signal lights?
Last edited by Romping Willy Billy; 06-04-2023 at 10:50 AM..
Dart has had to fulfill obligations to the suburbs that paid taxes into their system. Houston Metro doesn't have those obligations. For example, Addison has been standing at the end of the line for years now in order to get that Silver Line service.
In the long run, I think having an extensive rail system of many kinds of rail is going to help Dallas and North Texas fetch more tourist dollars. Riding on a bus is boring in comparison. Will people vacation to see the world's largest freeway loop? Will tourists venture to Houston to check out its modern computer controlled traffic signal lights?
No...
But they WILL continue to visit the Galleria. They WILL continue to visit The Space Center.
They still like our Museum District. And The Medical Center district.
You know...for a city that isn't exactly known for tourism, we seem to do QUITE WELL in that department anyway.
Oh...and we'll likely CONTINUE to be the best place in Texas to host major events (Superbowl, World Cup, etc.) due to our stadiums layout. All of this WITHOUT an extensive rail system.
So yea...keep your precious DART. We're doing just fine without it.
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OMG!!......You sound so bitter.....
.You have to understand at least a spoonful of what I said about timelines when it comes to transit.....DART makes mistakes.... and EVERY other system in this country....The good thing is..there's PLENTY of time to CORRECT these early mistakes...
........It would have to for these complaints to be worthy of concern.....These things will naturally be corrected or aggressively corrected............Whichever one actually happens really doesn't matter because the word CORRECTED is in both scenarios.
