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But I agree, as a native Texan probably most are aware that Tyler has the largest population in East Texas. But for an entire region that's nearly the size of South Carolina, there isn't a real standout city that completely pulls away from the others.
Even Texarkana has more of a real freeway system and the major university in ET is located in Nacogdoches. Both of these cities are smaller than Tyler.
Ok, from what you have shared to date you likely know less about Tyler, than your partner, but the vote is 2 to 2 so far, lol
NO, NO, NO, the two of us from Tyler, would lose a city data, take down vote. lol Mainly those that would vote would only have a drive-thru, or little real-life knowledge of the area, as I've noticed for the 10 plus years I've been on C.D. Other than the limited statewide information "out there" of the Tyler area.
I suppose that the driving reason I stay on posting here on C.D. To inform, correct, lol. update, and somewhat, lol, promote, specifically Tyler.
Off-topic, but...
Not large a booster of Texas, as in Texas Proud, oh NO, what have I done now, as I am a native Texan, and not saying "Love it or leave it" even IF I think it is one of the better places in the country, but in some ways, Texas is not in the top 10 states, IMHO. Oh, no, he didn't really say that? lol But this not really based on experiences of LIVING in any other state, so I should not really have a say on some other state than Texas being better than Texas, or I would be guilty of doing what I try to correct others of doing. Not knowing much about Tyler, but already have their minds made up without first-hand knowledge, observation or assessments, so I should join in, "TEXAS love it or leave it" lol
I get what you're saying about the cultural aspect but I beg to differ even on that. The vibe is quite different from that of say, Jacksonville, Marshall, Lufkin, etc. A lot of that has to do with size, but it also has to do with the job market.
Another interesting fact - even though Texas is one of the very "youngest" states out of the fifty states, when it comes to median age, Tyler is even "younger" median age wise than the state of Texas in general. This also makes a difference in the feel or vibe of Tyler.
I'm not making the claim that Tyler doesn't have it's own vibe. I believe to some extent most cities and towns have their own distinct vibe. And in Tyler's case that has a lot to do with size. BUT I see way more similarities and cultural patterns in Tyler than I see them standing out above the bunch.
Also as far as the youngest thing. A couple of weekends ago when I was in Tyler for a night out it still was pretty boring and dead for a Saturday night. Me and my wife wanted a change up from going to Shreveport like we generally do anytime I go back home. For all the change supposedly aimed towards Millennials the nightlife activity felt about as dead as Longview's. Had a few more ppl out and a few more options but still a drag for the most part.
So i'm wondering if Tyler is getting younger out of a want or is it mainly a necessity because it's a cheaper option and the biggest city in East Texas(since most of the migration comes from other counties in East Texas).
It doesn't feel like it's benefitting from that young migration or atleast on the level of a San Marcos or even Waco. Atleast on a social level imo.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Senior
Amenities to me, partly defines a city. You fail to mention the East Texas Symphony, it's be formed for over 80 years, as I think I remember, I have the Houston Symphony as a good comparison. Hear me, NO, it is not as large as the H.S. nor as good, as good, maybe. But more importantly, just take a look at all that comes to the U.T.Cowen Center Performing Arts Center. There is no place in East Texas that comes near to the number and quality of these performances. Amenities, again, do make a huge difference, or I would not be here. Well, Tyler draws me here to a large degree because of the vegetation, mix of trees, but much of East Texas has this, nope not the rest of Texas, another distinction.
Again, amenities, partly define a big city to me. DFW, you've got the Texas Rangers, Cowboys, water parks, Six Flags, Bass Hall. Houston ...
Now, I did not necessarily want to bring this big difference up: I just listened, to a speaker, NOT from Tyler, say he did a study that showed or determined there are at least 15 different culture "groups" in the Tyler Area, now he explained not just 15 different cultures, but culture "groups."
My addition to this, where in East Texas is there two Mosques, let alone, in one city. One is Sunni, one Shia
I don't see how you can compare Houston Symphony to East Texas Symphony. It's on a whole different level imo. And Longview does have a Symphony as well. It's been around 50 years. Not as long as Tyler but it's a stable in Longview's culture.
You also say U.T. Cowen Center is like no other venue in East Texas and offers performances not seen in any other part of East Texas. Tyler is bigger so it'll attract more acts that's a given. But I think you really underestimate Longview's Belcher Center. There's always quality performers and broadway shows at Belcher's center. I'd say it's right behind what Tyler has to offer and even has some shows that would draw people from Tyler and other parts of East Texas.
As far as the mosque it's only right that Tyler would have 2 mosque but Tyler is not the only East Texas city with a mosque. Longview and Lufkin have mosque as well. And I know they have a Islamic community in Texarkana as well.
Only cultural distinction I know of out of Tyler that's distinct from other parts of East Texas is the 2 Jewish buildings of worship. Tyler has East Texas only congregation for the Jewish community. Longview and Marshall use to have a Jewish community (not very sizable but it was a community) but both cities have seen a decline in the Jewish community. Matter fact Marshall had the oldest Jewish congregation in East Texas and one of the earliest in the entire state.
So again i'm not trying to downplay Tyler as being a cut above the rest when it comes to what it has to offer. It's the biggest city in East Texas. I would hope it could stand out in that regard. It's supposed to.
My observation is while Tyler has MORE of certain attributes that does give it a distinct vibe all to itself it's still largely like any other East Texas city politically and culturally which imo is the most important factor when determining a cities identity.
With that said in my personal opinion if we're talking culturally no city stands out more to me than Marshall and Jefferson. Because those 2 cities clearly offer things that are truly unique to the region that you wouldn't be able to find elsewhere in the region. That's mostly due to their historical significance.
Big is not necessarily better all the time even though if I had to move back to East Texas, Tyler would be my first choice because of the amenities.
I'm not making the claim that Tyler doesn't have it's own vibe. I believe to some extent most cities and towns have their own distinct vibe. And in Tyler's case that has a lot to do with size. BUT I see way more similarities and cultural patterns in Tyler than I see them standing out above the bunch.
Also as far as the youngest thing. A couple of weekends ago when I was in Tyler for a night out it still was pretty boring and dead for a Saturday night. Me and my wife wanted a change up from going to Shreveport like we generally do anytime I go back home. For all the change supposedly aimed towards Millennials the nightlife activity felt about as dead as Longview's. Had a few more ppl out and a few more options but still a drag for the most part.
So i'm wondering if Tyler is getting younger out of a want or is it mainly a necessity because it's a cheaper option and the biggest city in East Texas(since most of the migration comes from other counties in East Texas).
It doesn't feel like it's benefitting from that young migration or atleast on the level of a San Marcos or even Waco. Atleast on a social level imo.
I don't see how you can compare Houston Symphony to East Texas Symphony. It's on a whole different level imo. And Longview does have a Symphony as well. It's been around 50 years. Not as long as Tyler but it's a stable in Longview's culture.
You also say U.T. Cowen Center is like no other venue in East Texas and offers performances not seen in any other part of East Texas. Tyler is bigger so it'll attract more acts that's a given. But I think you really underestimate Longview's Belcher Center. There's always quality performers and broadway shows at Belcher's center. I'd say it's right behind what Tyler has to offer and even has some shows that would draw people from Tyler and other parts of East Texas.
As far as the mosque it's only right that Tyler would have 2 mosque but Tyler is not the only East Texas city with a mosque. Longview and Lufkin have mosque as well. And I know they have a Islamic community in Texarkana as well.
Only cultural distinction I know of out of Tyler that's distinct from other parts of East Texas is the 2 Jewish buildings of worship. Tyler has East Texas only congregation for the Jewish community. Longview and Marshall use to have a Jewish community (not very sizable but it was a community) but both cities have seen a decline in the Jewish community. Matter fact Marshall had the oldest Jewish congregation in East Texas and one of the earliest in the entire state.
So again i'm not trying to downplay Tyler as being a cut above the rest when it comes to what it has to offer. It's the biggest city in East Texas. I would hope it could stand out in that regard. It's supposed to.
My observation is while Tyler has MORE of certain attributes that does give it a distinct vibe all to itself it's still largely like any other East Texas city politically and culturally which imo is the most important factor when determining a cities identity.
With that said in my personal opinion if we're talking culturally no city stands out more to me than Marshall and Jefferson. Because those 2 cities clearly offer things that are truly unique to the region that you wouldn't be able to find elsewhere in the region. That's mostly due to their historical significance.
Big is not necessarily better all the time even though if I had to move back to East Texas, Tyler would be my first choice because of the amenities.
You are correct on most of your experiences and observations of what you conclude, IMHO. Yes, the Belcher Center in Longview is improving with the quality and quantity of performances. Tyler, has quite a head start with the numbers and extent of really well known and variety of performances IMHO.
Now, yes I think you can compare the Houston Symphony to the East Texas Symphony Orchestra in Tyler. I used a "disclaimer" right up front in my statement, of course, the Houston Symphony is better and certainly larger, however not nearly 20 times better, lol. per population comparisons, lol. Of course, you did not mean that much of a difference, I hope, lol. I was a Houston Symphony season ticket holder before I left living in Houston for 20 years, so I have extended experiences of both symphonies. The ETSO is quite outstanding for a city of our small size, compared to Houston. Again, IMHO. Now, my best friend is a German born 65 year old, that has been in Tyler for 15 years, we now go to the ETSO here, and said he is quite pleased with the quality. He gets more upset, with the selections, he goes on and on, about the conductors style of conducting. He is a real critic of the whole concert experience. He has attended symphonies in 4 or 5 countries in Europe, so I rather deffer, to him on his take on the ETSO. He renews his season tickets, lol.
Now, yes, I would think nightlife would be better in Waco, Baylor with nearing 20,000 students, many on campus students, helps, I would think. But where did you go out in Tyler?
I know The Grove, was popular, now? Opened with a bang about what, 5 years ago.
Where's Rufus, The Garage? not up on any of this, really way past my time. I just heard those were fairly popular. Not really today, but honestly, Tyler was an interesting, bar scene place, in the 1980s when you could legally drink at 18. I would visit from Houston and I was surprised with places like Charlie O's, and two other clubs I can't remember the names, were not that far off from the Houston scene, this I KNOW, lol
Yep, big is NOT necessarily better to me either, at least not any longer. I once really enjoyed ALL that Houston offered, but again, I was 18-44 years old. Then I said, enough already, lol Really enjoy what Tyler does have to offer, a lot of simple "small stuff" here, I've never mentioned on C-D, that I routinely enjoy. I just take those pleasures without really realizing them, take them for granted.
I noticed those on my visits from Houston to see my parents here. Then I realized the people in Tyler, just did not notice, or took some of what I saw, and enjoyed for granted. Now, I somewhat to a certain degree, at least do the same thing. Being aware of this, I try not to miss little stuff here.
Enough, I think and I'm sure you hope, that I will let this end, lol No promises, but will try.
Tyler also has two Islamic centers or mosques, as well as an Islamic private school. In addition to a pretty sizeable Jewish community. Also, the Catholic church diocese for east Texas is in Tyler and encompasses 33 counties in NE Texas.
This of course is in addition to the "church on every corner" that Tyler is famous, or infamous, for.
My point is that this religious diversity makes a very big difference in "the vibe" in Tyler.
But of course Tyler has a general "east Texas" vibe to it as well - it's the largest city in NE Texas, so that's to be expected.
Now, yes I think you can compare the Houston Symphony to the East Texas Symphony Orchestra in Tyler. I used a "disclaimer" right up front in my statement, of course, the Houston Symphony is better and certainly larger, however not nearly 20 times better, lol. per population comparisons, lol. Of course, you did not mean that much of a difference, I hope, lol. I was a Houston Symphony season ticket holder before I left living in Houston for 20 years, so I have extended experiences of both symphonies. The ETSO is quite outstanding for a city of our small size, compared to Houston. Again, IMHO. Now, my best friend is a German born 65 year old, that has been in Tyler for 15 years, we now go to the ETSO here, and said he is quite pleased with the quality. He gets more upset, with the selections, he goes on and on, about the conductors style of conducting. He is a real critic of the whole concert experience. He has attended symphonies in 4 or 5 countries in Europe, so I rather deffer, to him on his take on the ETSO. He renews his season tickets, lol.
ETSO is not rated one of the top Symphonies in the state but I'll take your word for it. It's outstanding for a city Tyler's size.
Quote:
Now, yes, I would think nightlife would be better in Waco, Baylor with nearing 20,000 students, many on campus students, helps, I would think. But where did you go out in Tyler?
I know The Grove, was popular, now? Opened with a bang about what, 5 years ago.
Where's Rufus, The Garage? not up on any of this, really way past my time. I just heard those were fairly popular. Not really today, but honestly, Tyler was an interesting, bar scene place, in the 1980s when you could legally drink at 18. I would visit from Houston and I was surprised with places like Charlie O's, and two other clubs I can't remember the names, were not that far off from the Houston scene, this I KNOW, lol
Last time I was in Tyler which was now going on 3 weeks ago me and my wife went to Stanley's BBQ and had some great food of course and saw a live band. Went riding around to find something new and ended up at a Daiquiri shop/lounge off broadway. Wasn't too bad at all honestly. But I've been to The Grove and a couple of other spots.
The Grove is probably the closest thing that resembles something "unique" on a big a city level. But of course it's in Tyler so it's on a much smaller scale. With that said the big cities of Texas social scene has FARRRRRR exceeded the rest of the state and that includes Tyler. As the big metro's continue to grow at an alarming rate the smaller cities no matter how fast they grow still tend to be much slower and smaller in that department. San Marcos might be the only one that fairs better imo. And that's basically because their stuck in between Austin and San Antonio.
Quote:
Originally Posted by KathrynAragon
Tyler also has two Islamic centers or mosques, as well as an Islamic private school. In addition to a pretty sizeable Jewish community. Also, the Catholic church diocese for east Texas is in Tyler and encompasses 33 counties in NE Texas.
This of course is in addition to the "church on every corner" that Tyler is famous, or infamous, for.
My point is that this religious diversity makes a very big difference in "the vibe" in Tyler.
But of course Tyler has a general "east Texas" vibe to it as well - it's the largest city in NE Texas, so that's to be expected.
Again the religious diversity plays a part in the vibe of the city but that "diversity" is assimilated with the overwhelming Southern Baptist and Methodist culture in Tyler. I mean just look on the city council. Most of the members if not all go to Baptist churches or Methodist ones. Are mostly white old and conservative and a few Black members. Not that much different than Longview's city council and other small towns in East Texas.
So again are the different cultures and religions integrated properly into the majority in the city or secluded from the dominant culture? Me personally their not integrated. You see it in the politics and the social scene.
Hell, Tyler still doesn't have a gay club. Longview had 2 a one time and now have one that even Gay Tylerites frequent too.
Most cities in Texas have a one-sided rivalry with Dallas
Seems that way. I grew up in DFW and didn't really know much about city rivalries, but once I moved to Austin a few years ago, I realized how many people seem to hate Dallas for some reason.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Treasurevalley92
favourite is Houston because of all the places to hate on, it seems silly to pick the place that is most like yourself. No two large metros in the US are more similar to each other than Dallas and Houston.
You're absolutely right, and that's what cracks me up about these rivalries. I felt sorta the same way about Austin and Dallas as well. Sure, there are differences, but the people in Austin seem to be in denial as to how similar they are to Dallas.
ETSO is not rated one of the top Symphonies in the state but I'll take your word for it. It's outstanding for a city Tyler's size.
Last time I was in Tyler which was now going on 3 weeks ago me and my wife went to Stanley's BBQ and had some great food of course and saw a live band. Went riding around to find something new and ended up at a Daiquiri shop/lounge off broadway. Wasn't too bad at all honestly. But I've been to The Grove and a couple of other spots.
The Grove is probably the closest thing that resembles something "unique" on a big a city level. But of course it's in Tyler so it's on a much smaller scale. With that said the big cities of Texas social scene has FARRRRRR exceeded the rest of the state and that includes Tyler. As the big metro's continue to grow at an alarming rate the smaller cities no matter how fast they grow still tend to be much slower and smaller in that department. San Marcos might be the only one that fairs better imo. And that's basically because their stuck in between Austin and San Antonio.
Again the religious diversity plays a part in the vibe of the city but that "diversity" is assimilated with the overwhelming Southern Baptist and Methodist culture in Tyler. I mean just look on the city council. Most of the members if not all go to Baptist churches or Methodist ones. Are mostly white old and conservative and a few Black members. Not that much different than Longview's city council and other small towns in East Texas.
So again are the different cultures and religions integrated properly into the majority in the city or secluded from the dominant culture? Me personally their not integrated. You see it in the politics and the social scene.
Hell, Tyler still doesn't have a gay club. Longview had 2 a one time and now have one that even Gay Tylerites frequent too.
Show me the ratings for Symphonies in Texas, geez, you have not responded if you been to the Houston Symphony on a regular basis, needed to REALLY KNOW how a symphony comparies with another. Hell, as you say, lol, I've NEVER compared Tyler ITSELF with even a city the size of LUBBOCK let alone a mega metro. Sure, San Marcus where it is, and what 30,000 students, thereabout, is a hopping fun lets party place, at once was known as the states PARTY SCHOOL, geez. We need to end this, however, you come back with something I feel compelled to address.
YEP, you got me with the NO gay club in Tyler, you are pulling out ALL your guns to be the winner here, lol. Yep, most people in East Texas goes or went, to gay clubs in Longview, however, it's my understanding they actually preferred the mega scene of the Southwest U.S.A. in Dallas, it's only a little farther than Longview, maybe 45 minutes, Tyler could never compare to Dallas. ok, you got me there.
Yes, the Grove was copied after what is on the East and West Coast, sure again, you won't find this in ALL of East Texas, again, I continue to list differences of there compared to the rest of E.Texas, but they are never enough. Visiting The Grove can be a social or cultural TYPE of activity, not just a top-notch amenity, for East TEXAS for certain, some comparisons of amenities or cultural can certainly overlap, IMHO. I give in, you are better at assessing/observing largely a complete analysis on Tyler even if I observe and live here 30 years, watch as often the political religious-cultural climate of Tyler, as well as watch from time to time Planning and Zoning City Council meetings on the cable, when interested, lol. yep, I don't have a life, in a sense just all of this is for some reason, interesting to me, largely because Tyler is different than most cities our size in Texas, different in more ways that other cities seem to be, I'll admit, seem, continually, after 20 plus years, of a lot of fun in HOUSTON, enjoying everything I knew of available for enjoyment, that is what I do and did. lol
Oh, I watch city council as earlier stated, and for decades, there have been at least two city council members out of six, that is 33% representation, which was and are currently African/American, with a city population of about 24%?
Surely a case can be easily made this is no different than Dallas, or Houston. This is another topic, people have moved over the last 40 years, creating, segregated schools again, Katy I.SD. in Houston, South Lake, Allen, and others, plus most larger cities. Now, haven't we covered everything possible. Peace.
Since Longview/Marshall are in-between the Tyler and Shreveport media markets, do they share channels from both markets or does Longview pick up only Tyler channels and Longview only picks up Shreveport channels?
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