Uptown Dallas vs. Uptown Houston (Bellaire, Center: home, tenant, costs)

[stoneclaw]

Originally Posted by Redlionjr

Gorgeous? I'm not gonna say it's ugly because it's not but gorgeous is not what I would use to describe Uptown Houston. Or an area full of cool buildings. That's just me though.

I disagree. Uptown Houston throughout that whole area is a visual paradise.

[Norman54]

Originally Posted by dancast1599

I like uptown Houston.

What I've always noticed about Uptown Houston is how pictures of it have to be snapped at a certain angle to avoid exposing that it started off as an office park. I spent a lot of summers as a teenager in Bellaire living with my dad who worked at a building in the area. Nearby Greenway Plaza was built as a campus mainly for Shell oil. They were attempting to assemble even more residential lots to expand the development when word got out driving up the price of real estate which killed the project.
I think Uptown Houston looks massive on the scale of Dubai. It has a masculine aspect to it. Neither is urban like Manhatten though.
What the city of Dallas has legally classified as Uptown just was never true. The developer who foresaw a kind of Uptown happening one day was Southland and its assemblage of land iits City-Place development.
I would describe that area of Uptown just to the north of downtown anchored by The Crescent as the burgeoning Financial District of North Texas and one day of the south.

[atadytic19]

Uptown Houston has developed into such a beast.
Zoom in to see how long the skyline at the top extends:

https://imgur.io/NSo4Yt9

It isn't really the same type of development as Uptown Dallas.

[Dallaz]

Originally Posted by atadytic19

Uptown Houston has developed into such a beast.
Zoom in to see how long the skyline at the top extends:

https://imgur.io/NSo4Yt9

It isn't really the same type of development as Uptown Dallas.

Uptown Houston has a downtown-like skyline. I wish it had more of a walkable center of gravity to it like Uptown Dallas' West Village. Since Uptown Houston is built around The Galleria as the main anchor for the district, it still maintains that suburban build.

Uptown Dallas has been built around the West Village as the area has grown. To me, it's the downtown or town center for the neighborhood. It also having a streetcar line and Texas' only subway station sets it apart from any place in Texas.

West Village walking tour videos -- I am sure people have seen these, but I like the CityPlace West Portion (part 3 video) of it the most. There's still room for the West Village to grow. It's not built out yet...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OGhoYnWaG-s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZdFZSeMJ3U4&t=241s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m7N8Vabpu28&t=165s

[SanJac]

Originally Posted by Dallaz

Uptown Houston has a downtown-like skyline. I wish it had more of a walkable center of gravity to it like Uptown Dallas' West Village.

You never fail to inundate with videos. Let’s be honest, those videos show what looks to be a nice area. It may have a more walkable center of gravity, but it was practically empty. The moderator said it was a BUSY night and then he shows a trolley that was EMPTY.

I worry that Dallas has developed such a reputation for pretentiousness that the city will never embrace public transportation or urbanity - only subway in Texas notwithstanding. The city might be too white-collar for that style of living. That video showed a very manicured area.

[Redlionjr]

Originally Posted by atadytic19

I can't imagine Post Oak developing to look anything like Rodeo Drive at all. Highland Village maybe, but I can't stretch my imagination enough to visualize Post Oak.

3898 Westheimer Rd
https://maps.app.goo.gl/UbqXnARnxySZQthTA

445 N Rodeo Dr
https://maps.app.goo.gl/4TSiv975bZCYhnpe8


It's not just that the streets are wide, the older developments with street facing parking lots are disappearing, but they are being replaced with more fortress like towers

1477 Post Oak Blvd
https://maps.app.goo.gl/1Xho3kAASsRPXDGJ9

Take this area ^^^ for example. It's a pretty picture. The towers are new and shiny, they are not just boxes, the sidewalks are lined with trees... pretty picture.

But the sidewalks are inadequate, there's lots of obstacles to navigate, and at a pedestrian level the buildings are so unwelcoming they look like a fortress.

Again, if looks so much better now, and I'm no longer scared to cross Post Oak, but I just don't see Rodeo Rodeo when I look at Post Oak.

I also think we can stop saying it is suburban in lay out. That no longer is true. There are still areas with street facing parking, but that's properties of lower use, it doesn't mean the entire street is suburban.


I agree that the Baby Boomer regulations have set the city back, but I don't have much of a problem with BRT vs light rail. The city is curing the development ills from the Boomer years, it's just that Houston is so huge its going to take decades to transform.

Just Uptown Houston alone is Huge, even though it has already transformed in the last 10 years.

You think that's urban? Maybe an urbanized suburb at best but that area( while it's improved) is still too car centric to be anything but suburban in layout. There's not enough at street level for it to be closer to a urban layout than a suburban one. It's like Energy Corridor on steroids. I guess a more urbanized Energy Corridor. Yeah the tall skyscrapers are there but no activity at street level. Still look like a office park with a few pockets of "walkable" mixed development and national chains attached to big parking lots you'd fine in any suburb in America. Only difference is you have a stretch of sidewalks separating parking lots from post oak. But you won't find a lot of people walking up and down Post Oak because the landscape doesn't influence a change in lifestyle.

Take a place like Silver Springs, Md for example. That's an actual legit suburb of D.C. but it's far more urban in layout than Uptown/Galleria area is.

[Dallaz]

Originally Posted by SanJac

You never fail to inundate with videos. Let’s be honest, those videos show what looks to be a nice area. It may have a more walkable center of gravity, but it was practically empty. The moderator said it was a BUSY night and then he shows a trolley that was EMPTY.

I worry that Dallas has developed such a reputation for pretentiousness that the city will never embrace public transportation or urbanity - only subway in Texas notwithstanding. The city might be too white-collar for that style of living. That video showed a very manicured area.

I don’t assume that everyone knows what I’m talking about, so I provide examples. This was also during the pandemic. There’s office space here that use to fead the traffic as well. The point was to show the streetscape. Most of what you see there didn’t exist 10+ years ago. Even if no one ever walks here, at least people have the option to do so in a pleasant environment.

I mean, it does depend on time of day. I’ve seen many times when the trolley was packed. I’ve ridden on the trolley myself and it was pretty packed when I was on it. 682,000+ ridership for a vintage trolley is pretty good. It’s not a modern trolley system like the Dallas Streetcar. If you’ve been around Klyde Warren Park, you’d see how busy it gets. Many people use it to get to the West Village. DART’s light rail subway is an accomplishment given what it connects to. People can say what they want about some other stations (and some maybe true), but this one makes sense given the location.

With all that said, it’s still more urban. Uptown Dallas has the room to improve further as it build on top of what’s already there. Uptown is still maturing and not even at its peak yet. The McKinney Ave Trolley has grown in ridership since Uptown has grown up around it. Meanwhile, Uptown Houston continues to grow around an enclosed shopping mall, a landmark of a bygone era. Which will probably help stifle any continued urbanization as the anchor is completely the opposite of walkable.

Oh yeah and another video just for you of the McKinney Ave Trolley.

Looks like ridership has recovered

https://youtu.be/emBkRgGrQ-M

[Norman54]

Originally Posted by SanJac

You never fail to inundate with videos. Let’s be honest, those videos show what looks to be a nice area. It may have a more walkable center of gravity, but it was practically empty. The moderator said it was a BUSY night and then he shows a trolley that was EMPTY.

I worry that Dallas has developed such a reputation for pretentiousness that the city will never embrace public transportation or urbanity - only subway in Texas notwithstanding. The city might be too white-collar for that style of living. That video showed a very manicured area.

What is not so apparent is how West Village has developed a reputation for being a hangout. It really needs to become sleepier for a while in order to rekindle its growth. Fewer places of booze and more boutiques.

[Norman54]

Originally Posted by SanJac

You never fail to inundate with videos. Let’s be honest, those videos show what looks to be a nice area. It may have a more walkable center of gravity, but it was practically empty. The moderator said it was a BUSY night and then he shows a trolley that was EMPTY.

I worry that Dallas has developed such a reputation for pretentiousness that the city will never embrace public transportation or urbanity - only subway in Texas notwithstanding. The city might be too white-collar for that style of living. That video showed a very manicured area.

There always has to be a slow time at night. Allow me to explain. I use to go buy chicken from a fried chicken place at 8:00 P.M. that stayed open until 9:00 P.M.. They wouldn't have any chicken because they said they would have to throw it out if no one ate it. Eventually they started closing earlier and still had the same problem. Now it has closed down.
In the real world, places get slow before they close.

[Norman54]

Originally Posted by SanJac

You never fail to inundate with videos. Let’s be honest, those videos show what looks to be a nice area. It may have a more walkable center of gravity, but it was practically empty. The moderator said it was a BUSY night and then he shows a trolley that was EMPTY.

I worry that Dallas has developed such a reputation for pretentiousness that the city will never embrace public transportation or urbanity - only subway in Texas notwithstanding. The city might be too white-collar for that style of living. That video showed a very manicured area.

It is easy to forget about West Village. To its southwest towards The Crescent and its Stanley Korshak department store, McKinney Avenue starts off being as prime as it gets. Prime then dips to go through West Village. To the northeast towards Knox Street, McKinney again raises in scale. This all happens along a three mile stretch and within the confines of Central Dallas.
This excludes the luxury district made up of a Neiman Marcus, Forty-Five-Ten, and the Joule Hotel located in downtown. Honestly, that area looks really tarnished.
McKinney on one side and the Katy Trail on the other tie the area all together.
For example, there are three existing urban like specialty grocery store developments located on or close to McKinney Avenue with these being The Union with a Tom Thumb, The Gable with a Whole Foods, and a Trader Joe's anchoring an apartment building in the Knox Park District.
The planned Central Market with an apartment tower built over it would make another one. The area just needs to add more population for that to happen.
Think West Village has disappeared? Consider how invisible Turtle Creek Village must feel located just to its north.