Better skyline Houston or Dallas? (Allen, Center: become, catch, friend)

[Dallaz]

Originally Posted by Trae713

So you just want a whole bunch of ten story buildings to fill up the vacant lots? What is the hurry here? A lot of the vacant lots are being filled up as we speak and it isn't like there aren't a ton of vacant lots in Dallas too. That's despite all the smaller towers.

A lot of those vacant lots in Downtown near Uptown have planned developments on it. There's hardly any large land tracts in Uptown that's doesn't have a building planned or under construction.

[annie_himself]

Originally Posted by Trae713

Just because Houston is building skyscrapers doesnt mean that the midrise construction isn't taken place. Dallas just has zoning so all of the midrisea and apartments that are being constructed in the core are close by. And yes, first floor retail is being built on some of these buildings, but not every building needs first floor retail. Unless you want vacant retail.

I was speaking on his opinion only. Not in reality of what Houston is doing. I haven't been there in over a year so I'm sure alot has changed.

Originally Posted by Trae713

So you just want a whole bunch of ten story buildings to fill up the vacant lots? What is the hurry here? A lot of the vacant lots are being filled up as we speak and it isn't like there aren't a ton of vacant lots in Dallas too. That's despite all the smaller towers.

No, but it's more important to me to have every lot filled up rather than hoping that a developer wants to build a tall skyscraper. I don't know about Dallas, I've only flown in and out of DFW.

[binkyman]

Originally Posted by TexasTallest

LOLOL, downtown Dallas looks twice as big as downtown Houston, and is twice as wide? What have you been smoking? You have a few more hotels.. Congrats. One could make the claim that Houston's downtown would still be larger than Dallas' if Houston's downtown were only offices.. Whoopie...

There you go again with the weak shots..

Isn't downtown Houston only about a mile wide? Downtown Dallas is two miles wide. Unless you don't think Uptown is part of the skyline? You aren't one of those, are you? Get a ruler. Look up downtown Houston on google. Measure the scale. Measure downtown Houston.

I measured downtown Houston. Inside the traditional loop is about a mile and a half by a mile and a quarter. But there lots of ghetto places in downtown Houston that are like those areas your mother told you never to visit.

And the racket made by the roosters from the surrounding neighborhoods is enough to drown out the cheering of the losing fans in the three sports arenas.

[Trae713]

Originally Posted by annie_himself

I was speaking on his opinion only. Not in reality of what Houston is doing. I haven't been there in over a year so I'm sure alot has changed.

No, but it's more important to me to have every lot filled up rather than hoping that a developer wants to build a tall skyscraper. I don't know about Dallas, I've only flown in and out of DFW.

A tall skyscraper? Again, why do you think that is all the city is holding out for? Just because tall skyscrapers are being buiot in Houston doesn't mean surface lots aren't also being taken. People keep getting confused by that Dallas zoning and uptown.

Originally Posted by binkyman

Isn't downtown Houston only about a mile wide? Downtown Dallas is two miles wide. Unless you don't think Uptown is part of the skyline? You aren't one of those, are you? Get a ruler. Look up downtown Houston on google. Measure the scale. Measure downtown Houston.

I measured downtown Houston. Inside the traditional loop is about a mile and a half by a mile and a quarter. But there lots of ghetto places in downtown Houston that are like those areas your mother told you never to visit.

And the racket made by the roosters from the surrounding neighborhoods is enough to drown out the cheering of the losing fans in the three sports arenas.

No. What the city of Dallas defines as downtown is smaller than downtown houston. Don't know where ypu get the two miles thing.

[Trae713]

Originally Posted by Dallaz

A lot of those vacant lots in Downtown near Uptown have planned developments on it. There's hardly any large land tracts in Uptown that's doesn't have a building planned or under construction.

Yes and a lot of the vacant lots in Houston have planned developments on them too. Some just include future 700+ skyscrapers. A 16 story office tower, like what you see being built in downtown dallas, is a waste of space in downtown houston. Those heights work for the energy corridor, but downtown goes 30+ floors for office. There are a couple of hotels taking up vacant lots too.

[binkyman]

Originally Posted by Dallaz

A lot of those vacant lots in Downtown near Uptown have planned developments on it. There's hardly any large land tracts in Uptown that's doesn't have a building planned or under construction.

It took Uptown only three decades to fully develop while downtown Dallas has yet to do so and it has been developing for over a century. Indeed, downtown Dallas started flowing over into the Uptown area in the mid eighties, but now Uptown itself is spilling into the Design District, gushing north along Maple Avenue, and flooding north of CityPlace into the Knox-Henderson area.

I can't believe these naive Houston folks would dare try to contrast downtown Houston with that of fully functional and operational central core of Dallas. Then again, I can't believe I had a pleasant conversation with Phil Collins the other day after bumping into him at the zoo. Actually, as it ended up, it wasn't Phil Collins at all but the behind of a baboon. I still got his autograph.

[marcopolo2000]

Originally Posted by binkyman

Isn't downtown Houston only about a mile wide? Downtown Dallas is two miles wide. Unless you don't think Uptown is part of the skyline? You aren't one of those, are you? Get a ruler. Look up downtown Houston on google. Measure the scale. Measure downtown Houston.

I measured downtown Houston. Inside the traditional loop is about a mile and a half by a mile and a quarter. But there lots of ghetto places in downtown Houston that are like those areas your mother told you never to visit.

And the racket made by the roosters from the surrounding neighborhoods is enough to drown out the cheering of the losing fans in the three sports arenas.

Please stop. Downtown Houston can swallow DT Dallas easily. This isn't even up for debate.

[binkyman]

Originally Posted by marcopolo2000

Please stop. Downtown Houston can swallow DT Dallas easily. This isn't even up for debate.

It says better skyline Dallas or Houston?

Skyline. Not downtown.

[Dallaz]

Originally Posted by Trae713

Yes and a lot of the vacant lots in Houston have planned developments on them too. Some just include future 700+ skyscrapers. A 16 story office tower, like what you see being built in downtown dallas, is a waste of space in downtown houston. Those heights work for the energy corridor, but downtown goes 30+ floors for office. There are a couple of hotels taking up vacant lots too.

Hey, it might be but we are now trying to densify the urban core. Dallas for many years had looked great from afar, but lacked urban density. Now, we are really focusing around Downtown/Uptown when it comes to a pedestrian friendly urban environment.

I do not want to see a 50+ story building until we can at least fill in the parking lots along Woodall Rodgers Freeway. I wouldn't mind seeing a skyscraper but I would rather focus on eliminating parking lots, than have one skyscraper that probably won't even take up a full city block. It is horrible to see new towers come up in an area that lacks any connection to the street (basically isolated)

In the 1980s, Dallas and Houston were known for building skyscrapers that were designed without the public in mind. These buildings were simply built to look good from the freeway. The building's base were completely void of traffic. It was very cold and not built for people to enjoy.

In Dallas we are trying to reverse that with many development projects that are currently planned or under construction. These new high-rises that are being built in Dallas are designed to be very pedestrian friendly, a lot of them have retail on the lower floors. This is what Houston should have instead of a 700+ ft building. People want a vibrant downtown not a boring one that has dominating skyscrapers.

[TexasTallest]

Originally Posted by Dallaz

Hey, it might be but we are now trying to densify the urban core. Dallas for many years had looked great from afar, but lacked urban density. Now, we are really focusing around Downtown/Uptown when it comes to a pedestrian friendly urban environment.

I do not want to see a 50+ story building until we can at least fill in the parking lots along Woodall Rodgers Freeway. I wouldn't mind seeing a skyscraper but I would rather focus on eliminating parking lots, than have one skyscraper that probably won't even take up a full city block. It is horrible to see new towers come up in an area that lacks any connection to the street (basically isolated)

In the 1980s, Dallas and Houston were known for building skyscrapers that were designed without the public in mind. These buildings were simply built to look good from the freeway. The building's base were completely void of traffic. It was very cold and not built for people to enjoy.

In Dallas we are trying to reverse that with many development projects that are currently planned or under construction. These new high-rises that are being built in Dallas are designed to be very pedestrian friendly, a lot of them have retail on the lower floors. This is what Houston should have instead of a 700+ ft building. People want a vibrant downtown not a boring one that has dominating skyscrapers.

again, you guys make it seem like Houston isnt working towards density. Houston just doesnt have zoning like Dallas, so the urban areas are spread out. there is plenty of work being made towards creating higher density in midtown and uptown, along with the obvious downtown.. these areas are just more spread out than Dallas'. Eventually (25 years seems like a fair estimate) all of the density will blend together and Houston will have one large skyline connecting Uptown, Downtown, and the Medical Center. its already starting to happen.
i agree, Dallas and Houstons downtowns are pretty crappy for ground level retail. unfortunately its taken a while for developments to start bringing in new retail, even Dallas' BOA towers new redesign plan sucks for ground level activity.. i thought thats part of what it was supposed to fix? oh well.. at least some developers are catching on and both areas are starting to become more pedestrian friendly and "vibrant".