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But to the poster above, I find it amusing you state toronto's city on a massive housing bubble while then saying that oshawa exceepds Vancouver for national average for home sales. When you consider Vancouver is at least constrained by water, it sounds like oshawa is in bubbalicious country as well.
Actually, what I said was Oshawa is one of the only places in Canada outside Vancouver that exceeds the national average for home sales. The other is Burlington.
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Ultimately this posting was just about trying to find something 'cheaper' and I think the discourse here has been about the definition of cheaper. Personally I live in Toronto and prefer it, but my brother lives in Oshawa and I know it well too so a comparison is useful. Both are houses were bought at the same time (2007) and for the same amount of money - his is 3000sq ft mine is 1200. He and his wife have 2 cars, I have one (yes, you're an exeption but when I drive around oshawa I often see more than one car in those long double-car garage driveways be honest).
Many of the multi-car homes in Oshawa are likely owned by GM employees who benefit from employee pricing on all GM vehicles. However, where I live in Oshawa's north end, most people make above-average incomes and can afford to purchase two cars - especially when house costs are as cheap as they are.
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His taxes are much higher than mine, and so are his utilities (house is bigger mind you).
Oshawa has the highest property taxes in Canada. However, where you pay more for property taxes, you save even more on the cost of your home. Overall, you end up ahead.
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I will say that my house has clearly appreciated much more in value than his has based on comparables.
Undoubtedly so. However, that is in a large part due to the aforementioned housing bubble that Toronto is going through. Once interest rates rise a couple percentage points, the value of homes in Toronto is going to plummet. As Oshawa housing is actually uderpriced, the cost of houses here may drop as well, but not nearly as much.
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More importantly, I like being able to walk to my neighbourhood bar, grocery store, take the subway home from work, etc and ironicially my backyard is much bigger than his, and I like my trees. He likes living there because ther'es lots of chain stores/restaurants out there, its a little more sanitized and the greenspaces are much bigger. Ultimatley , to each their own.
I can also walk to my local pub, grocery store and a large shopping mall. My commute may be longer than yours, but I enjoy peace and quiet you can't find in the city. As for restaurants, I can honestly say I have never been to a restaurant downtown Toronto that blows away any of the ones we have in Oshawa (mind you, I am not a "foodie" by any means).
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Ultimately, it comes down to your definition of 'cheaper'. If you mean bigger house for less money, go outer fringes. If you mean less time in commuting/travelling to interesting places, go city. I will say that regardless of where you want to go, the notion of the 70s that you could go suburban for a lot cheaper than city and still not have too bad a commute is over. Over. Everywhere is expensive.
Just my opinion, but I just don't find a lot in Toronto that justifies the exhorbitant costs of living there. I mean you do have the AGO, ROM, TSO and decent live theatre (if you are into that), but let's face it, Toronto is nothing like NYC. In fact, it pales rather quickly in comparison. Both Yonge and Queen have been sanitized since the days when they were interesting, and the city as a whole is a lot more hype than actual substance.
I can't say I agree on your second statement. We live quite comfortably in Oshawa, and my commute time is only 15 minutes longer than when I lived in Whitby. If we had bought in Toronto, we'd be in a "budget" shoebox condo living paycheque to paycheque.
Annuvin I certainly can appreciate that you like living in Oshawa. So does my brother. I'm not saying one is better than the other, just different. I will say though that I think you're a bit of an exception based on my considerable experiences in Oshawa. Almost every house there has 2 cars (most houses are built with 2 car garages as further proof), a lot of people do complain about the commute including my brother, and I know for a fact he has to drive his teenage daughters to the bus stop - so that you can walk to your pub, grocery store and shopping mall I think is an exception (if not, what % of able bodied Oshawa residents can do so?) Toronto would be nigh on 90%. Oshawa I'm going to say is 40%. And that's not just my opinion, here's my brothers walkability score Walk Score of Woodstream Ave Oshawa ON Canada
Now I realize that this might be a more isolated area of Oshawa, but still, an 8!!! Even if the majority of people live in places that are 4x more accessible, it's only a 32 As for everywhere not being expensive, what do houses in your hood go for? If it's more than 3x average income, it's expensive.
Annuvin I certainly can appreciate that you like living in Oshawa. So does my brother. I'm not saying one is better than the other, just different. I will say though that I think you're a bit of an exception based on my considerable experiences in Oshawa. Almost every house there has 2 cars (most houses are built with 2 car garages as further proof), a lot of people do complain about the commute including my brother, and I know for a fact he has to drive his teenage daughters to the bus stop - so that you can walk to your pub, grocery store and shopping mall I think is an exception (if not, what % of able bodied Oshawa residents can do so?) Toronto would be nigh on 90%. Oshawa I'm going to say is 40%. And that's not just my opinion, here's my brothers walkability score Walk Score of Woodstream Ave Oshawa ON Canada
Our house was built in 1959 and does not have a garage. However, the driveway can easily accommodate 4 cars due to its length. As for judging your brother's "walkability" and having to drive his daughters to the bus stop... You have to realize that he literally lives in "the country" and not anywhere near the city proper by any means. If not for Durham College (aka UOIT), there would not be a regular bus going there due to the lack of population in that part of "the city".
We live in the north end at Stevenson and Rossland. It is a 15 minute walk from my front door Thorton and Rossland where there is a bank, European deli, video store, convenience store, pub and pet store. There is a drug store, sushi restaurant, Pizza Pizza, Subway, Chinese food, dollar store and esthetics salon not a 5 minute walk from my front door. If I want to walk for 20 minutes south on Stevenson, there is a grocery store and the Oshawa Center mall. Keep in mind that we live in what some would consider an "extreme end" of the city, as we are only a 15 minute walk from the Oshawa/Whitby border.
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Now I realize that this might be a more isolated area of Oshawa, but still, an 8!!! Even if the majority of people live in places that are 4x more accessible, it's only a 32 As for everywhere not being expensive, what do houses in your hood go for? If it's more than 3x average income, it's expensive.
Ours is one of the more highly desired areas of the city. It is very quiet as it is a closed neighborhood (due to it's proximity to Oshawa airport). We bought our house for $253,000, but admittedly that was way under market value for this area due to it being sold under an estate sale. The houses on either side of us would easily fetch $300,000 apiece in today's market. Keep in mind however, that you could not buy this house in Whitby or Ajax for under $325,000 (more likely closer to $350,000). Regardless of what you may consider "expensive", Oshawa houses are much, much cheaper than the rest of Durham as a whole, and an absolute steal compared to the rest of the GTA. A coworker of mine was looking to buy his first home in Oakville/Burlington and could not believe the house you could get in Oshawa for the prices you pay. Houses that sell here for $175,000 to $225,000 out that way easily go for $400,000+. I won't even comment on the ridiculous prices detached houses on postage-stamp lots go for in Toronto proper.
I've never understood why the urban crowd presumes that everyone in the suburbs has a 2 hour commute. Some do - certainly, but most cities now (especially the GTA) offer sufficient employment opportunities within the suburbs. Most people commute suburb to suburb now. Most people, especially families, will change jobs from time to time - in new locations, but most will not choose to uproot their family, sell their home, change school districts etc just to shorten their commute time.
It also needs to be recognized that many people simply do not enjoy urban living - and house size and cost are irrelevant. I'm personally one of these people. I enjoy the economic and social benefits to living within a major metro - but you couldn't pay me enough to live near the downtown core. Suburbs offer peace and tranquility with major urban amenities - the fact that it's cheaper than the city is just a bonus.
We live in a 1600 sq/ft townhouse in Oakville. Dollar for dollar, we could get something similiar sized in the 416 - but we simply do not, because *gasp* we like the suburbs. I work predominantly out of home, with travel around the GTA 1-2 days per week and my wife chose to work in Burlington. Our quality of life simply could not be better, and most of my immediate neighbours seem to work somewhere between Hamilton and Mississauga. I couldn't name one who has a commute of more than 30 minutes.
well, in you case, it works perfectly.
However, it is different for most other people. Yours are a special case. Downtown still offers more jobs than any other area. Not everyone can find a job in small towns like Burlington. If one works in Hamilton, of course it makes no sense to buy a house in Toronto.
Most people still prefer living closer to the core, probably not right inside it. There are simply far more choices in terms of amenities and entertainment in the city. They live in the remote suburbs only because that's what they can afford.
Who hate the idea of living in Forest Hill, Moore Park or Rosedale anyway? The are close to everything but have all the tranquility and peace you desire.
@ Annuvin - fair enough. I would say that $300,000 is not that cheap, relatively speaking. Not all lots in Toronto are postage stamp sized either, speaking of generalizing I think the main point of the original poster was asking if there are any cheap places 1.5 hours out of the city; and I think the answer is no, not really.
Who hate the idea of living in Forest Hill, Moore Park or Rosedale anyway? The are close to everything but have all the tranquility and peace you desire.
Me. The idea of living in a high maintenance 100 year old home with elitist neighbours doesn't really appeal to me - but to each their own.
Actually, what I said was Oshawa is one of the only places in Canada outside Vancouver that exceeds the national average for home sales. The other is Burlington.
Many of the multi-car homes in Oshawa are likely owned by GM employees who benefit from employee pricing on all GM vehicles. However, where I live in Oshawa's north end, most people make above-average incomes and can afford to purchase two cars - especially when house costs are as cheap as they are.
Oshawa has the highest property taxes in Canada. However, where you pay more for property taxes, you save even more on the cost of your home. Overall, you end up ahead.
Undoubtedly so. However, that is in a large part due to the aforementioned housing bubble that Toronto is going through. Once interest rates rise a couple percentage points, the value of homes in Toronto is going to plummet. As Oshawa housing is actually uderpriced, the cost of houses here may drop as well, but not nearly as much.
I can also walk to my local pub, grocery store and a large shopping mall. My commute may be longer than yours, but I enjoy peace and quiet you can't find in the city. As for restaurants, I can honestly say I have never been to a restaurant downtown Toronto that blows away any of the ones we have in Oshawa (mind you, I am not a "foodie" by any means).
Just my opinion, but I just don't find a lot in Toronto that justifies the exhorbitant costs of living there. I mean you do have the AGO, ROM, TSO and decent live theatre (if you are into that), but let's face it, Toronto is nothing like NYC. In fact, it pales rather quickly in comparison. Both Yonge and Queen have been sanitized since the days when they were interesting, and the city as a whole is a lot more hype than actual substance.
I can't say I agree on your second statement. We live quite comfortably in Oshawa, and my commute time is only 15 minutes longer than when I lived in Whitby. If we had bought in Toronto, we'd be in a "budget" shoebox condo living paycheque to paycheque.
You acknowledge that the rate of sale in your area is a product of interest rates. If the bubble burst your just as hard hit, your house may not drop 100k in a short period but you'll have a much harder time making a sale, it also is unlikely to ever go up by any amount, furthermore your paying higher taxes which is far worst than paying a higher mortage rate as you will never be able to get the money back, finally you have one of the longest transit times in the area surronding the gta. This don't really seem like that great of an option.
You can try Hamilton. 45 minutes away from Toronto. Though it is a little further, it's an actual city and not a part of Toronto, and it is much much cheaper than Toronto as well. Same as Kitchener/Waterloo, etc. I don't think any area in the GTA would be considered "cheap."
You can try Hamilton. 45 minutes away from Toronto.
You mean when there is no traffic?
Distance should be measured by the travel time at 8:00 on a typical Monday morning.
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As for everywhere not being expensive, what do houses in your hood go for? If it's more than 3x average income, it's expensive.
