toronto is WAY too expensive... any cheaper places within an hours (or an hour and a half) drive from city of toronto ?? (crime rate, homes)
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NO kidding botticelli. As I've written before, I live and work in Toronto (416) and I can't get to work at 9am in less than 45 minutes. I don't understand how someone living in Hamilton could do what I can't when I'm starting from the city. And not even from or to the fringes --- don mills/lawrence to bay/bloor.
You acknowledge that the rate of sale in your area is a product of interest rates. If the bubble burst your just as hard hit, your house may not drop 100k in a short period but you'll have a much harder time making a sale, it also is unlikely to ever go up by any amount, furthermore your paying higher taxes which is far worst than paying a higher mortage rate as you will never be able to get the money back, finally you have one of the longest transit times in the area surronding the gta. This don't really seem like that great of an option.
The OP asked if there were any cheap places within 1.5 hours of the city. I provided him with one. It takes me approximately 1 hour 20 minutes from my front door to work and vice-versa. Not to mention you'll get twice the house for your dollar in Oshawa than you will ever get in Toronto.
As for your take on the financial benefit of paying $100,000+ more for your house than an additional $700 a year in tax (comparing Oshawa to Whitby in terms of rates)... Have you actually done the math on this one?
$700/year times 25 years = $17,500.
$100,000 mortgaged over 25 years at todays ridiculous rate of 3% = $473.25/mo. or $141,975.
Thread came up in a search as I was researching various areas to live. A couple years ago, I was staunchly against moving to the suburbs. I love city life and take more advantage of it than most as I frequently go to the ballet, the opera, the TSO, museums, nice restaurants, wine bars, cooking school (hobby), etc. Love all that stuff.
I'm married now and that really changes everything though. For one, once I buy a house, I'm not going to have as much disposable income to be able to take advantage of those things as often as I do now, which negates a significant advantage of the city. I make good money, but my wife is an immigrant and likely won't work for the next few years.
I've long maintained that it would be better to live in a condo somewhere on a subway line to keep the commute reasonable, but right now I live at High Park and my commute still takes me 50 min and sometimes longer because I have to rely on the street car for part of it. If I leave work late they come less frequently and it can easily take me an hour. And it's a crappy commute packed in to a subway car like a sardine, frequently with people that smell or behavioral issues, without a seat most of the time. My wife is attractive and she regularly gets harassed. I won't miss that.
I was looking at the condos that are going up across from High Park. 2 bedroom w/730 sq Ft = 500-650k + $500/mo maintenance. Ugh. These are supposedly luxury condos, but the build quality sucks. You can see the shortcuts they take everywhere, even in the presentation center. Laminate floors. Cheap laminate, though modern-looking cabinets. Don't have proper venting over the stove. Decent appliances but everything is so small. They will look terrible in 10 years' time and the maintenance fees will get be jacked up because you can be sure builders always low-ball the fees.
The biggest driver for me to move out of the city isn't the lack of space in a condo, which I'm already used to, but the lack of control over the people that surround you. That is the real killer for me and it's the reason why I want nothing less than a detached home. I have smokers beside and below me at my current place. I'm paying nearly 2k in rent and I can't open my damned window or sit on the balcony to enjoy the fresh air without the smell of bloody cigarettes. That pisses me off. I've spent 5 figures on a high-end sound and home theater system but I can't use it the way I like without having to worry about noise complaints and a security knocking on my door at 10pm.
I'm strongly considering places like Georgetown or Hamilton now (I hate the cookie cutter new development houses of whitby, Ajax, etc). Yes, the commute is long, but if you take the GO train, you've got a solid hour in each direction in which you can do work. That's an extra 10 hours of productivity per week. Anyone in a job paying six figures likely brings work home in some form or the other, has to keep up with their field by reading/researching outside of work hours, etc. With the connectivity options available these days, the train is the perfect time to do that. Then when you get home, you can spend time with your family instead of shutting yourself away. I'd definitely never drive it though. What a nightmare that would be.
Hamilton is looking really nice to me though. Especially Ancaster and Dundas areas. Lots of trees, a huge nature preserve, a lake nearby for a sailboat in the future (with considerably cheaper slip fees than TO), etc.
Thread came up in a search as I was researching various areas to live. A couple years ago, I was staunchly against moving to the suburbs. I love city life and take more advantage of it than most as I frequently go to the ballet, the opera, the TSO, museums, nice restaurants, wine bars, cooking school (hobby), etc. Love all that stuff.
I'm married now and that really changes everything though. For one, once I buy a house, I'm not going to have as much disposable income to be able to take advantage of those things as often as I do now, which negates a significant advantage of the city. I make good money, but my wife is an immigrant and likely won't work for the next few years.
I've long maintained that it would be better to live in a condo somewhere on a subway line to keep the commute reasonable, but right now I live at High Park and my commute still takes me 50 min and sometimes longer because I have to rely on the street car for part of it. If I leave work late they come less frequently and it can easily take me an hour. And it's a crappy commute packed in to a subway car like a sardine, frequently with people that smell or behavioral issues, without a seat most of the time. My wife is attractive and she regularly gets harassed. I won't miss that.
I was looking at the condos that are going up across from High Park. 2 bedroom w/730 sq Ft = 500-650k + $500/mo maintenance. Ugh. These are supposedly luxury condos, but the build quality sucks. You can see the shortcuts they take everywhere, even in the presentation center. Laminate floors. Cheap laminate, though modern-looking cabinets. Don't have proper venting over the stove. Decent appliances but everything is so small. They will look terrible in 10 years' time and the maintenance fees will get be jacked up because you can be sure builders always low-ball the fees.
The biggest driver for me to move out of the city isn't the lack of space in a condo, which I'm already used to, but the lack of control over the people that surround you. That is the real killer for me and it's the reason why I want nothing less than a detached home. I have smokers beside and below me at my current place. I'm paying nearly 2k in rent and I can't open my damned window or sit on the balcony to enjoy the fresh air without the smell of bloody cigarettes. That pisses me off. I've spent 5 figures on a high-end sound and home theater system but I can't use it the way I like without having to worry about noise complaints and a security knocking on my door at 10pm.
I'm strongly considering places like Georgetown or Hamilton now (I hate the cookie cutter new development houses of whitby, Ajax, etc). Yes, the commute is long, but if you take the GO train, you've got a solid hour in each direction in which you can do work. That's an extra 10 hours of productivity per week. Anyone in a job paying six figures likely brings work home in some form or the other, has to keep up with their field by reading/researching outside of work hours, etc. With the connectivity options available these days, the train is the perfect time to do that. Then when you get home, you can spend time with your family instead of shutting yourself away. I'd definitely never drive it though. What a nightmare that would be.
Hamilton is looking really nice to me though. Especially Ancaster and Dundas areas. Lots of trees, a huge nature preserve, a lake nearby for a sailboat in the future (with considerably cheaper slip fees than TO), etc.
Excellent points regarding condo living, you are the mercy of your neighbors smoking, kids screaming, walking above you, inept property managers, useless board of directors, rising maintenance fees, dogs barking, loud garbage chutes, the sound of elevator buttons being pressed (very annoying).
Dundas is great, VERY green, the escarpment is stunning, good luck to you!
Last edited by Toronto99; 03-09-2014 at 08:41 PM..
Reason: edit
a couple of forums on here suggest that Hamilton is a bit of a dodgey area, eg crime ridden... etc, that wouldn't be too much of a problem if i was looking for a small apartment alone, but i plan on raising a family soon so that could be a massive problem..
I haven't been on here much lately but there were a couple of people slamming Hamilton some time back, no idea why. Hamilton has a lower crime rate than Toronto and is cheaper for most everything. There's a new Go station being built and train service will be every 15 minutes. To save time it's a short drive to the Burlington Go and service is excellent.
I missed the boat on Hamilton real estate, prices have almost double over the last 5 years,
Back in 2009, maybe as late as 2010, you could pick up some nice gems for $150K
Those same gems are now more in the $250K range. Still way cheaper than most places near Toronto.
I also think Waterdown is another place that is good, and growing fast, lot's of shopping now,
nice new big Walmart, Rona, etc.
I missed the boat on Hamilton real estate, prices have almost double over the last 5 years,
Back in 2009, maybe as late as 2010, you could pick up some nice gems for $150K
Those same gems are now more in the $250K range. Still way cheaper than most places near Toronto.
I also think Waterdown is another place that is good, and growing fast, lot's of shopping now,
nice new big Walmart, Rona, etc.
Problem living in Hamilton if you work in Toronto is the commute - I know some people who do this and its brutal and only gonna get worse. If you can find a good job in Hamilton than naturally living there is an excellent value proposition.
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