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I, personally, think people who bleach a child's hair and parade her around in sexy clothing are nuts but apparently it's a "thing" in the part of the country that Patsy came from. Of course I don't know why John would have put up with it. Unless he had something to gain from it.
The videos were doctored by the media. That's also covered in these threads somewhere. Patsy suggested the pageants to JB after Patsy was in remission from her ovarian cancer. She thought JB would enjoy them since she herself had (as a teenager and young adult). As JR said, the videos were home movies; intended for their family ONLY. After JB was killed, the photography shop released the photos.
JR later said, after both JB and Patsy were dead, that he wished they had never put her in the pageants.
Just because you can't imagine this means nothing. Kids younger than this have committed horrible crimes, including murder.
Of course it happens. I can't imagine THIS kid having done it. Nothing in Burke Ramsey's profile, history, upbringing, relationship with his sister, interviews with psychiatrists and the police, teenage years or adult behavior has demonstrated that he was capable of this crime.
Of course it happens. I can't imagine THIS kid having done it. Nothing in Burke Ramsey's profile, history, upbringing, relationship with his sister, interviews with psychiatrists and the police, teenage years or adult behavior has demonstrated that he was capable of this crime.
I agree; he IS a good person as far as we know -- he DID seem to have a good upbringing and is apparently operating normally in a normal life. I don't think he's psychotic. I don't think anything is wrong with him.
If he did this, I think it was a singular event in his life when his anger or a related emotion went too far, it got physical for whatever reason, and he snapped. I think he knew it was horrible and wrong at the time, but he's likely worked it out through private, professional therapy and/or in talking with his parents and clergy over the years. I don't think by any measure that he meant to do it (if he did).
He's been on the quiet side of all of this because his parents protected him from the media and kept in the background during his early years and likely until he was 21. He just wasn't talked about unless an interviewer asked about him. That's normal either way you look at it: If he wasn't involved, why bring him up and put him through unnecessary grief; if he was involved, why bring him up?
The only other thing that keeps nagging me is the sexual part and all those doctor's visits, which were not normal. Could Patsy possibly have been wiping her too harshly and angrily at times to have caused this? Could JB have been examined so many times that the exams themselves caused some abrasion? Surely there were nurses; that one pediatrician was likely not the only one to have ever examined or prepped her for an examination.
I think Patsy wrote the note.
Patsy was with JonBenet all the time; John wasn't.
Patsy took her to the doctor all those times that year.
Patsy is the one who dealt with or either directed the housekeeper to clean up the wet sheets and replace them.
Patsy dressed and undressed her.
But what would cause UTIs in a child that age? By the time they're 5, only 8% of girls have had UTIs. Urinary Tract Infections
Only 13% of 6-year-olds wet the bed: Bedwetting
Even John stated he never knew anything, had never heard anything about her having a UTI. Why wouldn't Patsy have mentioned that? Did he even know JonBenet was going to the doctor that many times?
As far as a 9 year old being able to do this, I doubt he did all the sexual stuff. But just from my experience, my brother and I both have scars from PLAYING with the other sibling. Any one of those incidents could have led to death if we had fallen differently or pushed just a little harder or whatever. And we liked each other. If there had been animosity, even when we were 6 or 10, the result of any of those incidents could easily have been death.
So I still say it's possible that he did it accidentally or with animosty with the intent to harm but not kill. And the rest was staged as a cover up. That scream one or two people heard could have been Patsy after Burke told her there was an accident and she went down to find JonBenet.
But just from my experience, my brother and I both have scars from PLAYING with the other sibling. Any one of those incidents could have led to death if we had fallen differently or pushed just a little harder or whatever. And we liked each other. If there had been animosity, even when we were 6 or 10, the result of any of those incidents could easily have been death.
So I still say it's possible that he did it accidentally or with animosty with the intent to harm but not kill. And the rest was staged as a cover up.
Correct. I never said that he was an extremely violent person or had a history of violence. But, that doesn't mean that he didn't commit the crime during a sudden act of rage. As I said, I don't think it was premeditated or planned. Hell, it could have been something as simple as jealousy over a Christmas gift - who knows?!
Could someone do something like this as a one-time thing & never do it again?! Absolutely.
He's lucky he didn't go to juvenile detention (or worse). His parents bought his freedom...
Tobiashen, that was an interesting article. And I STILL don't know what to think. Having read all the comments to the article, it could be possible that it was Burke who was sexually molesting Jon Benet. Patsy even said JB used to go to Burke's bedroom "for protection." They seemed to have slept together quite a bit. Boys of that age do get curious about girls and as the article stated, he could have been poking objects up inside her. They both could have thought of it as a secret game.
Apparently John Ramsey had no history of child abuse. As other articles have stated, a child abuser doesn't stop. He would have continued doing it.
One article I read said JonBenet had already had 33 vaginal infections in the (2-3?) years before she died. Also that her vagina was enlarged. So it seems like there was sexual abuse from someone. Burke or an outsider.
It was Patsy who took JonBenet to the doctor all the time. The doctor was a family friend so he would have lied on their behalf if there were anything to lie about. Maybe Patsy was clueless as to why JB was getting vaginal infections.
The housekeeper. She was almost certain that Patsy killed JonBenet. She said that lately Patsy had been like two people, a split personality. She said Patsy was flying into rages. She told of terrible fights between Patsy and JB over such things as which dress to wear. She said she had taken Burke's jackknife and hidden it in the linen closet and that Patsy would have been the one to find it. She said Patsy would have known that the blanket they covered her in was still in the dryer. This is coming from a person who saw the family up close.
After having read again how bad the head wound was, I don't think Burke would have been capable. Her skull was actually cracked and there was an actual hole. Like being hit with a brick. Or, as someone mentioned, like cracking your head against the porcelain toilet basin or the sink after being shoved--hard.
Also, if Burke had done it, they wouldn't have had much to lose, because, he, as a kid, wouldn't have been in that much trouble. They wouldn't have gone to all that trouble to protect him. They would have told police that the kids liked to play rough and tumble and that it was just an accident. It would seem so anyway.
As for bedwetting, that's usually a sign of stress. A child wishing to revert to the comfort of infancy when all was innocent and simple. The article said that Burke was also a bedwetter. That part I don't understand--JB under stress with all the pageants, yes, but why was Burke under such stress? Anybody else know any more about bedwetting in older kids? Other than wishing to revert to babyhood?
So it pretty much leaves Patsy. Or an intruder. If, as the housekeeper said, Patsy had been rather out of her mind lately, that might account for the weird RN she wrote. It would account for her temper and maybe slamming JB against the toilet or bathroom sink after another bed wetting episode.
The staging and RN? What gets me is that they don't even match. An elaborate RN plus an elaborate sexual torture staging. Well, make up your mind, which alibi do you want!!! Because the two alibis don't match. Alibi #1. Kidnapped for ransom. Alibi #2. Killed during a sexual torture.
Did Patsy do all of it? It's the work of a crazed person. If, as I read in some article, Patsy was a heavy reader of mystery books and watcher of movies (I don't know this for sure), then she could have known how to stage the scene just from her reading and movie watching.
She could have done it all while John slept. But even if she did, why didn't he turn her in? It wasn't a happy marriage anyway so why keep it together?
In answer to my own question about bedwetting, some articles say JB had vaginal infections, others say urinary tract infections. Here's something on UTI:
frequent night waking to go to the bathroom
wetting problems, even though the child is toilet taught
The article goes on to say that they can be caused by taking bubble baths or wearing nylon underwear (that doesn't "breath." It would stand to reason that Patsy would have been dousing her with bubble bath, perfumes, dressing her not in sensible cotton underwear. Not that this proves anything but maybe it could explain the bedwetting. UTI are not proof of sexual abuse (although in her case, it does look like this was happening too.)
Also, if Burke had done it, they wouldn't have had much to lose, because, he, as a kid, wouldn't have been in that much trouble. They wouldn't have gone to all that trouble to protect him. They would have told police that the kids liked to play rough and tumble and that it was just an accident. It would seem so anyway.
Did Patsy do all of it? It's the work of a crazed person. If, as I read in some article, Patsy was a heavy reader of mystery books and watcher of movies (I don't know this for sure), then she could have known how to stage the scene just from her reading and movie watching.
She could have done it all while John slept. But even if she did, why didn't he turn her in? It wasn't a happy marriage anyway so why keep it together?
Well, I respectfully disagree with this. If either the brother or PR did this, I absolutely believe that JR would have covered this up in to keep his family out of prison/juvenile detention (or whatever it's called). Remember that JR was wealthy due to his business, and had a reputation to uphold. If it had come out that his son or wife had killed his daughter, I'm fairly certain that would have tarnished his reputation enough so that he would have had to go out of business & probably would have lost much of his wealth. As it stood, the family ended up leaving Boulder anyway due to the publicity - but, it would have been a LOT worse for JR if any member of his family had been convicted of the crime.
So, JR definitely had a vested interest in covering up this crime...
The only other thing that keeps nagging me is the sexual part and all those doctor's visits, which were not normal. Could Patsy possibly have been wiping her too harshly and angrily at times to have caused this?
Sounds as if the doctor visits were for regular issues, below.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jameson
In the four years before her death, JonBenet was taken to this pediatric clinic 27 times. Her pediatrician, Dr. Francesco Beuf, said he didn't "think it's excessive under the circumstances. I went through her chart and summarized the types of visits she had in the office in the few years prior to her death. She was here three times for annual well-child visits, one time for stomach ache, one time for vaginitis, one time for a bruised nose from a fall at a local market, and 21 times for colds, sinusitis, ear infections, bronchitis, pneumonia, hay fever, and possible asthma. A pretty wide spectrum of generally allergy and respiratory system associated problems which are not uncommon with kids her age."
I don't think they rigged it, strangled her, or hit her. I think Burke did, as I wrote here:
I can't imagine that. How would they know a blanket was in the dryer? Where was the dryer? But most of all, why would they have cared? That's an act of caring. Guilt, shock wouldn't set in, I don't think, if they heard someone getting up and had to get out very quickly.
Curious, though: How and when do you think they might have gotten out? By what exit, at what time? What do you think made them leave in such a hurry that they forgot to go back and get the RN (or didn't have time)? No one knows what happened, and I have my theory, but I'm certainly open to any others that seem reasonable.
JB was a bed wetter and her bed sheets were in the dryer, maybe PR snapped...
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