***JonBenet Ramsey IV*** (murder, FBI, justice, today)

[PennyLane2]

Originally Posted by CA4Now

Does the author post a link to the particular transcript where JR allegedly said this? I've never heard even a reference to anything like this.

There are lots of footnotes for sources/etc. I'd have to go back and look for that. I'm reading it on my kindle and only learned to use the bookmark feature starting with Chapter 4, The Inconsistencies.

........................................

Note to anyone who hasn't read the book but plans to: Don't read below. It may spoil some of Chptr 4 for you.

Inconsistencies regarding whether Burke was asleep during the 911 call:

- Ramseys claimed that Burke slept through the night and through all the events of the next morning
- After finding out about BR's grand jury testimony (he said he heard noises and voices in the distance), the Ramseys changed the story and admitted that BR had been awake during the call
- In the interview with the Nat'l Enq, JR gave "conflicting details of how and when" BR was awake - first it was BR woke up before the 911 call, then it changed to after the 911 call, then it went back to before the 911 call
- PR said BR was nowhere near the phone when she made the 911 call
- In Death of Innocence, the story line was that JR and PR found BR asleep that morning and that they continued to let him sleep

It's mind boggling how many times their stories changed over this incident.

The next inconsistency deals with the over-sized underwear. I actually kind of chucked a couple of times while reading how Patsy was squirming when trying to answer those questions.

[CA4Now]

Originally Posted by PennyLane2

----------------------------------
Note to anyone who hasn't read the book but plans to: Don't read below. It may spoil some of Chptr 4 for you.

Inconsistencies regarding whether Burke was asleep during the 911 call:...

I don't understand why such a big deal is made of the whole "was Burke asleep" issue.

We now know--because he told us--that he pretended to be asleep. Not that unusual for a 9 year old, although I agree that it's a little odd....I would think he would have bolted out of bed, hearing his parents that hysterical. We also now know that he was an unusual child and that he's certainly an unusual adult, from watching his interview with Dr. Phil.

He claims that he had never heard his parents that upset, so he pretended to be asleep when his mother came into his room. At some point later, he undoubtedly told his parents about it. I read the book Death of Innocence awhile ago, and I don't remember what was written about this. To interpret new information that neither parent knew about, but later acknowledged, as "changing their story" sounds like a media spin.

Of course the National Enquirer would state anything they could about JR giving "conflicting details." They've never been known to print anything but sensationalized articles. Truth is not what they're after; they want people to buy their magazine.

There is no evidence that Burke was anywhere near the phone when the 911 call was made. Even Det. Patterson, who interviewed Burke on 12/26--without his parents' permission--at the Whites' home after the body was found, determined that he was not aware of how or when his sister died. And Patterson was a member of the Boulder PD, who surely would have wanted Burke to be part of it so they could "solve" the crime.

[CA4Now]

I never realized that the BPD reviewed 200 videotapes and all the computer files that were taken from the Ramsey home. This was written not quite a year after the crime.

Commander Mark Beckner’s Statement to Media on December 5, 1997 (Ramsey Update #61): https://bouldercolorado.gov/pages/de...msey-update-61

[PennyLane2]

Originally Posted by CA4Now

I don't understand why such a big deal is made of the whole "was Burke asleep" issue.

I can see where a person who believes an intruder was involved would think it was unimportant. People who believe otherwise, however, would see it as very important. If he was awake and in the room when the 911 call was made, then the Ramseys were being untruthful, which leads one to believe they were lying in order to cover up something, which was also one of the things the Grand Jury wanted to indict them for...accessory after the fact.

I read this on reddit, so take it for what you will. It may be a total fabrication, or not. Supposedly, BR testified to the Grand Jury that the voice at the end of the 911 tape sounded like his voice. That leads me to believe that the GJ and BR heard the enhanced version of the 911 tape, and the GJ questioned him about it, which also leads me to believe the Ramseys deliberately lied about him being nowhere near the phone during the call. The conversation at the end of the tape is very telling too, especially the, "We're not talking to you," comment.

[CA4Now]

Originally Posted by PennyLane2

If he was awake and in the room when the 911 call was made, then the Ramseys were being untruthful, which leads one to believe they were lying in order to cover up something, which was also one of the things the Grand Jury wanted to indict them for...accessory after the fact.

But he wasn't "awake and in the room when the 911 call was made." Where are you getting that information? And why do you believe that the Ramseys were being untruthful if they actually believed that he was asleep in his bedroom?

I read this on reddit, so take it for what you will. It may be a total fabrication, or not. Supposedly, BR testified to the Grand Jury that the voice at the end of the 911 tape sounded like his voice. That leads me to believe that the GJ and BR heard the enhanced version of the 911 tape, and the GJ questioned him about it, which also leads me to believe the Ramseys deliberately lied about him being nowhere near the phone during the call. The conversation at the end of the tape is very telling too, especially the, "We're not talking to you," comment.

From what I understand, none of the testimony from the Grand Jury has been released.

From Reddit:

"There has been some speculation that there is additional audio at the end of the 911 tape. There’s some confusion about where this came from. According to James Kolar, the 911 operator informed police that there was a conversation at the end of the tape. Thomas states that the speculation began when detectives thought they heard a conversation. These are the audio analyses that have been performed and what they’ve found:

Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) (Washington, DC; requested by BPD (1997) – Unable to recover voices

United States Secret Service (Washington, DC); requested by BPD (1997) – Unable to recover voices

Aerospace Corporation (El Segundo, California); requested by BPD (1997) – Claim that their techs were able to hear the same conversation independently

Los Alamos National Laboratory (Los Alamos, NM); requested informally by Pete Hofstrom. – Unable to recover voices

Legal Audio (New York, NY); requested by MSNBC (2003). – Unable to recover voices

Team Audio (Toledo, OH); requested by MSNBC (2003). – Unable to recover voices

An unnamed company used by CBS. – Unable to recover voices

Professional Audio Laboratories (then in Spring Valley, New York; now headquartered in Park Lawn, NJ); commissioned by Tricia Griffith, forum owner of Websleuths and Forums For Justice. – Unable to recover voices

In a taped interview in 1998, Patsy was asked about the audio:
“TOM HANEY: Was there any conversation immediately following your last words to the dispatcher? P. RAMSEY: I don't remember. I was out of my mind. My child was missing. I was trying to convey that to the person on the other end of the line. OK? I don't remember. If you have it on tape and would like me to hear it, I'll listen to it and see if that jogs my memory. HANEY: It is on tape. P. RAMSEY: OK. All right. Well, if you've got the tape and we can play it then I'll try and help you.”
Tom Haney then changes the subject and asks, "When is JonBénet's birthday?" The lawyer for the Ramseys asks at the end of the interview for a copy of the enhanced 911 call.
According to Perfect Town Perfect Murder, Burke was first interviewed on tape on January 8, 1997. On June 10-12 1997 Burke Ramsey was interviewed two hours each day:
“When Schuler asked Burke if his mother and father had prepared him for the conversation, he said no. Gently Schuler explored whether Burke thought his sister had sometimes been a bad girl and gotten mad at people. They discussed which people she got mad at and whether she had been mean and nasty to those people. Schuler asked Burke if his mother and father ever got really mad at his sister. Burke said he didn't think so. Schuler's most important questions, never asked directly, was whether JonBenet had ever done something to bring about her death. Again Burke answered no. Had she fallen and hit her head? He didn't remember her doing that. The most delicate part of the interview was getting Burk to answer questions without revealing what the police knew.

First, he was asked if he ate any pineapple and when he went to bed. He didn't remember. What did he and his father talk about when they played with his Chrismas gift that night? Just that it was time for bed. Then Schuler asked what happened after Burke went to bed. Did he have any dreams? Did he hear anything in his sleep? Burke said he had heard voices, in the distance. Maybe it was a dream, maybe not. It was so long ago he said. Without mentioning the 911 tape, Schuler asked Burke when he got up that morning and how he awakened. He did not want the Ramsey's to learn what the police knew. The plan was to confront them about the tape during their own interviews, which would probably take place later in the month.

Burke said he remembered waking up and hearing a loud conversation from down the hall or on the front stairs. Maybe his mother had come into his room, but he was sure he stayed in his bed and pretended to sleep. He was concerned while he pretended, he said. Burke told Schuler he was awake when his mother made the phone call. His parents might have thought he was asleep but he wasn't he said. When he was asked if he spoke to his parents that morning before being awaken at seven to be taken to the Whites' house, he said no. He said he had stayed in his room the whole time."

The conversation at the end of the tape is very telling too, especially the, "We're not talking to you," comment.

The audio clip of the "enhanced" 911 call from that CBS show is on one of these threads somewhere, where you can hear it for yourself.

[virgode]

Originally Posted by CA4Now

From what I understand, none of the testimony from the Grand Jury has been released.

The sames been pointed out previously after posts by you containing GJ info from an unidentified crime forum. Don't misunderstand, I'm not doubting your word.
If Jameson can obtain and post segments of sealed deposition to an active forum, there's no doubt in my mind GJ documemts have gotten into the wrong hands as well.

[PennyLane2]

Originally Posted by virgode

The sames been pointed out previously after posts by you containing GJ info from an unidentified crime forum. Don't misunderstand, I'm not doubting your word.
If Jameson can obtain and post segments of sealed deposition to an active forum, there's no doubt in my mind GJ documemts have gotten into the wrong hands as well.

I was just thinking the same thing , so I went looking.

Originally Posted by CA4Now

A few pages back, I posted that a summary of the GJ evidence is on another forum. It shows that the conclusion was based on "evidence" such as: prior vaginal trauma, the ransom note coming from a notepad of Patsy Ramsey’s, on one handwriting "expert" saying he could not rule out PR as the author of the RN, the pineapple in the bowl that PR said she didn't serve to JBR, security of the home (disabling the alarm system, leaving windows or doors unlocked), not having better security for Burke when he returned to school after the murder, the broken basement window that Det Arndt claimed that JR did not report, etc.
...snip...
The grand jury prosecutors presented at least seven alternative legal theories of the parents' possible involvement in her murder. The GJ indicted on two. And obviously, their information was based on what ONLY the prosecution said. That's the nature of a grand jury.

Originally Posted by PennyLane2

I don't see how that got out. I thought there were four pages released, the four true bills. I'm skeptical of the source and accuracy of that information.

John Andrew, JR's son, and Susan Stine, close friend of JR and PR - that's just what I'd expect them to say. Their opinions are highly biased.

Originally Posted by CA4Now

Google it, and I'm sure you can find it. We're not supposed to post links to competing forums. (Who would believe that the autopsy photos were released, but they were.)

Originally Posted by CA4Now

These are the audio analyses that have been performed and what they’ve found:

Aerospace Corporation (El Segundo, California); requested by BPD (1997) – Claim that their techs were able to hear the same conversation independently


The audio clip of the "enhanced" 911 call from that CBS show is on one of these threads somewhere, where you can hear it for yourself.

Bingo! All it takes is one highly specialized company with highly specialized equipment and a set of highly skilled individuals to do the job. Looking at the other comapnies listed who tried to enhance the tape, it doesn't surprise me that only the aerospace corp was able to do the job.

I don't think that audio clip posted on here is what the GJ, BR, and CBS people heard. No telling how many times that has been copied from the original, so it's understandable that the ending conversation can't be heard.

[CA4Now]

Originally Posted by PennyLane2

I was just thinking the same thing , so I went looking.

It's common knowledge what the grand jury was assembled for, and that in any grand jury, the prosecution side is presented but not the defense side. And we know the reasons that the BPD thought the Ramseys were guilty: the RN, the notepad found inside the home, the pineapple, etc, etc. (Whoever said that this thread goes in circles is right.)

To my knowledge, no actual testimony has been released.

[CA4Now]

Originally Posted by PennyLane2

Bingo! All it takes is one highly specialized company with highly specialized equipment and a set of highly skilled individuals to do the job. Looking at the other comapnies listed who tried to enhance the tape, it doesn't surprise me that only the aerospace corp was able to do the job.

Then why did Aerospace Corporation decline to release their report on this "enhanced" tape?

[PennyLane2]

Originally Posted by CA4Now

Then why did Aerospace Corporation decline to release their report on this "enhanced" tape?

We've been through this too. They did release their report to Boulder Police Dept, the source that gave it to them to enhance. They were not obligated/authorized to release it to anyone else.