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They don't " gloss over " the reason at all.
The PSNI were carrying out an intelligence-led operation to seize illegal weapons held by terrorists.
There was no " implication " the journalist was killed by a PSNI bullet - the New IRA have already admitted responsibility and apologised,for what that is worth.
The victim was a highly-regarded local journalist whose death should not be used in some sort of crapulous argument about who was to blame.
Seriously,show some respect for the people of Northern Ireland who have to put up with this and reign in your amateurish pontifications about something you clearly know nothing about.
So now the poorly written words of others is used to be critical as well?
The riots and the blame for them seems to be glossed over (if mentioned at all), with the focus being solely on the death of the journalist.
That said, the riots were happening within that community, so are you implying the PSNI were conducting their operation within the bounds the community felt to be acceptable?
I would think the fact there was a riot implies otherwise.
Thanks for the links, as I had read one, but not the others.
The strange thing is how some of the articles completely gloss over the reason the riots started in the first place, and mainly talk about the death of the journalist.
It is even implied that the riot was triggered by the shooting, which can even imply the bullet that killed her was that of the PSNI.
Over here if a white cop kills a black man (justified or not), many a riot has broken out as a result.
I just took another glance at the articles and the clear narrative in all of them is that the riots were triggered by the raids. The journalist herself posted a photo of the rioting on Twitter, so that's confirmation that the shooting occurred during the riots.
The fact that a weapon was fired at police officers justifies the weapon raids being carried out in the first place, does it not?
Noted your comment there Vector1 and acknowledge it.
RJ
Thanks for letting me know you saw it, as this thread moves so fast at times, it is hard to know whether replies to posts are read.
I watched this interesting film about the Unionists in Glascow, trying to get a better idea of your culture vs. that of Unionists in NI.
Since it was based around soccer I thought I might fall asleep, but since there was hooliganism, shouting and the signing of sectarian songs, I managed to stay awake.
I know fans of sports teams will travel to see their favorite teams, but I was surprised that both sides would venture into the others lions den, especially considering the potential for violence.
Apparently it is not uncommon for people from NI to travel over to your neck of the woods for Ranger/Celtic games.
I just took another glance at the articles and the clear narrative in all of them is that the riots were triggered by the raids. The journalist herself posted a photo of the rioting on Twitter, so that's confirmation that the shooting occurred during the riots.
The fact that a weapon was fired at police officers justifies the weapon raids being carried out in the first place, does it not?
Actually the articles I was referring to were not the ones you linked for me, but others I have read or listened to over the course of several days.
But I was thankful for the ones you posted, because I had not read 3 of them.
As to your question, I suspect much of it would depend on whether the raid/s were conducted within what the community would consider fair and professional. Over here some raids are conducted on the wrong home/s, and can result in tragedy.
While we do not have the sectarian violence and similar factors, the closet comparative analogy would be with race related issues in some black communities(cops predominately white).
Now if the police go in to arrest a known bad guy or raid a drug operation, most of the community is ok with it, even thankful.
But if they go door to door and violating homes having nothing to do with the perpetrator, then things can get ugly fast.
Or if excessive force is used based on the communities perception of bias/racism, that can spark a riot.
While I personally tend to support police actions to get the bad apples, rest assured some policing can be over the top, and at times criminal. Some black leaders have pointed out how tactics used in poor black communities would never be tolerated is white affluent neighborhoods.
Needless to say, they have a point in that regard.
The same type of perceptions within the Catholic communities as it related to the RUC, have left a lingering mistrust of LE.
So I suspect that could be a factor in why the community rioted. Otherwise why would they have?
Agree with you. That are like some of their similar places are hotbeds of the woeful and dangerous who never grow up politically. I noted that the celebration of the Easter Rebellion was marked including military in Dublin. The thing hat makes me sigh is that the country did get independence in 1922 NOT at the time of that stuff earler dated. There were Dublin people who wondered about that crowd who marched in the city and folk probably more concerned about the racing news. The lot of Republicans at the Easter Rising stuff were a dodgy bunch and it was NOT indepence bu the country doesn't mark that but a less than popular occasion??
A couple of pictures showing the reception the soldiers got in Dublin after WW1. This was probably the same attitude when they started the Easter Rising.
'' Its true attitude to democracy and freedom was summed up in a recent statement of an IRA spokesman who, when asked by an interviewer for a foreign newspaper about the wishes of the people of the country concerning an aspect of reunification, replied, “We call the shots. We don't really give a damn what they want”.
Actually the articles I was referring to were not the ones you linked for me, but others I have read or listened to over the course of several days.
But I was thankful for the ones you posted, because I had not read 3 of them.
As to your question, I suspect much of it would depend on whether the raid/s were conducted within what the community would consider fair and professional. Over here some raids are conducted on the wrong home/s, and can result in tragedy.
While we do not have the sectarian violence and similar factors, the closet comparative analogy would be with race related issues in some black communities(cops predominately white).
Now if the police go in to arrest a known bad guy or raid a drug operation, most of the community is ok with it, even thankful.
But if they go door to door and violating homes having nothing to do with the perpetrator, then things can get ugly fast.
Or if excessive force is used based on the communities perception of bias/racism, that can spark a riot.
While I personally tend to support police actions to get the bad apples, rest assured some policing can be over the top, and at times criminal. Some black leaders have pointed out how tactics used in poor black communities would never be tolerated is white affluent neighborhoods.
Needless to say, they have a point in that regard.
The same type of perceptions within the Catholic communities as it related to the RUC, have left a lingering mistrust of LE.
So I suspect that could be a factor in why the community rioted. Otherwise why would they have?
`
What we know is that many of the rioters were youths being egged on, possibly the organisers knew that chaos would hamper the police operations, because let's not pick bones, it's confirmed that an armed terror cell was present in the area. The rioters proceeded to throw 50 fire bombs and at least one masked individual opened fire with a gun, killing an innocent bystander. The fact that the rioters were armed doesn't support the narrative that they were simply aggrieved, law-abiding residents.
The police raids may or may not have been overbearing, but that's the reality when going against terrorists who are considered to be armed and dangerous. The extremely violent response and subsequent murder wasn't justified no matter how anyone tries to spin it.
I must say, your response to this strikes me as rather cold. This happened 4 days ago, but I've yet to see you actually condemning the murder, instead you've devoted your time towards trying to turn the narrative against the police carrying out a difficult job, rather than the people with actual blood on their hands here.
So now the poorly written words of others is used to be critical as well?
The riots and the blame for them seems to be glossed over (if mentioned at all), with the focus being solely on the death of the journalist.
That said, the riots were happening within that community, so are you implying the PSNI were conducting their operation within the bounds the community felt to be acceptable?
I would think the fact there was a riot implies otherwise.
`
I don't know much about Derry but if the dissidents have a level of support there?
It would seem possible that rioting was planned, I would not criticise the police for going in to deal with those kind of people, they have no political mandate and mainstream republicanism ( AFAIK) supports the PSNI in tackling the issue?
What we know is that many of the rioters were youths being egged on, possibly the organisers knew that chaos would hamper the police operations, because let's not pick bones, it's confirmed that an armed terror cell was present in the area. The rioters proceeded to throw 50 fire bombs and at least one masked individual opened fire with a gun, killing an innocent bystander. The fact that the rioters were armed doesn't support the narrative that they were simply aggrieved, law-abiding residents.
The police raids may or may not have been overbearing, but that's the reality when going against terrorists who are considered to be armed and dangerous. The extremely violent response and subsequent murder wasn't justified no matter how anyone tries to spin it.
I must say, your response to this strikes me as rather cold. This happened 4 days ago, but I've yet to see you actually condemning the murder, instead you've devoted your time towards trying to turn the narrative against the police carrying out a difficult job, rather than the people with actual blood on their hands here.
That's because he's a buffoon who knows nothing about NI.
The idea that police there should plan an anti-terrorist raid to take into consideration the feelings of the local community in case they get upset is laughable.
Not just laughable but comically and dangerously ignorant about the reality of life in the province.
The death of this journalist appears to be of minor insignificance in his bizarre world where Catholics are somehow the blacks of NI.
Why bother engaging with this joker ?
Last edited by Roscoe Conkling; 04-23-2019 at 08:56 AM..
That's because he's a buffoon who knows nothing about NI.
The idea that police there should plan an anti-terrorist raid to take into consideration the feelings of the local community in case they get upset is laughable.
Not just laughable but comically and dangerously ignorant about the reality of life in the province.
The death of this journalist appears to be of minor insignificance in his bizarre world where Catholics are somehow the blacks of NI.
Why bother engaging with this clown ?
It's clear right from the thread title where his loyalties lie, that's fine, but I'm surprised to see him going as far as to try and quietly justify the murderous actions of an extremist group resisting the authorities in charge of handling them. The big story here, the death of an innocent journalist, is apparently a minor detail next to the supposed bigger picture...
I don't know if that's a theme here, but it strikes me as no different to defending the actions of other outlawed groups, such as ISIS or Al Qaeda. Questionable territory, but I'm not going to tell CD how to run their own forum.
What we know is that many of the rioters were youths being egged on, possibly the organisers knew that chaos would hamper the police operations, because let's not pick bones, it's confirmed that an armed terror cell was present in the area. The rioters proceeded to throw 50 fire bombs and at least one masked individual opened fire with a gun, killing an innocent bystander. The fact that the rioters were armed doesn't support the narrative that they were simply aggrieved, law-abiding residents.
The police raids may or may not have been overbearing, but that's the reality when going against terrorists who are considered to be armed and dangerous. The extremely violent response and subsequent murder wasn't justified no matter how anyone tries to spin it.
I must say, your response to this strikes me as rather cold. This happened 4 days ago, but I've yet to see you actually condemning the murder, instead you've devoted your time towards trying to turn the narrative against the police carrying out a difficult job, rather than the people with actual blood on their hands here.
I am surprised you would infer and speculate such, as most of my inquiry is trying to get a better idea of what happened from beginning to end. I am not going to jump to knee-jerk reactions regarding total support or LE and/or the community that rioted.
That includes the initial cause of the riot which presumably brought the journalist there in the first place. She was only doing her job and was an innocent victim in the mess. I think that goes without saying, as all sides seem to have condemned it, including SF, correct?
The bottom line is I will not assume the PSNI's actions were done in a manner that meets the communities tolerance.
While I and others may not like it, special efforts by police in America are made to not incite riots in certain black areas known to distrust the police.
Thus I am wondering if that was the case in this instance.
Lets use the Parades Commission fr an example.
Every year multiple riots were expected because of all the marches. The commission was set up to try and find a balance between the two opposing sides to quell the potential violence. Thus goofy little things like a drum only being able to be hit at a certain cadence in certain areas was established. Yet that seemingly goofy thing seems to help prevent violence.
The point being that there are certain sensitivities in both the Nationalist and Unionist communities that must be taken into account to prevent the violence. The police are tasked with following such things whether they like it or not.
Whether the police observed those protocols/standards is what I am wondering about, since I doubt spontaneous riots just erupt for no reason.
That is especially true regarding some small Republican splinter group member/s who likely does not have the communities support.
Unless you think otherwise?
`
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