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how do you feel about the idea of the border being in the irish sea ?
thus allowing the current land border arrangement between northern ireland and the republic of ireland to continue and thus operating outside the future brexit changes , do you agree with david davis that northern ireland is not in anyway a special case re brexit ?
None of the options are anywhere near perfect Bob. It's just a headache for all concerned. The best one is a united Ireland. We have to seriously look at this long term. A hard border would be impossible to enforce, and would cause great damage to trade if attempted.
'Special status' for NI would mean leaving NI in the EU in everything but name. A lot of folks in the province voted for that. But that would set off Scotland squawking for the same for them.
The Irish sea as a hard border sounds ok until you realise NI people would have to show their passports to visit the mainland. This would have the NI screaming in anger.
We can't win whatever we do. A united Ireland is the only real way forward. We will have to cobble something together for now, but anyone with any sense knows the only logical thing to do. Try telling that to the folks of Ulster.
None of the options are anywhere near perfect Bob. It's just a headache for all concerned. The best one is a united Ireland. We have to seriously look at this long term. A hard border would be impossible to enforce, and would cause great damage to trade if attempted.
'Special status' for NI would mean leaving NI in the EU in everything but name. A lot of folks in the province voted for that. But that would set off Scotland squawking for the same for them.
The Irish sea as a hard border sounds ok until you realise NI people would have to show their passports to visit the mainland. This would have the NI screaming in anger.
We can't win whatever we do. A united Ireland is the only real way forward. We will have to cobble something together for now, but anyone with any sense knows the only logical thing to do. Try telling that to the folks of Ulster.
ive said it before on this site , the northern ireland situation alone should have ensured the brexit vote was an overwhelming remain result
when a people dont understand their own geography , problems are bound to arise
eventually the unionists in northern ireland will realise that ulster is a unique region of the uk and in a situation where a major change happens like brexit , the fallout is going to be different , they cant wish it were otherwise , as usual the unionists want to have their cake and eat it
hence the DUP crowing about not wanting a hard border or anything which damages trade with the south , while on the other hand demanding northern ireland faces the exact same transition out of the EU as the mainland uk
i dont envisage a united ireland for decades but unionists are going to be disappointed with the realities of brexit , of that i am sure as the london government being beholden to flat earthers is not something which is going to be a reality for any significant length of time , even the hard brexiteer wing of the tory party dont care that much about ulster , the UKIP voters care neither for scotland and would i suspect not be too bothered if scotland gained independence
to conclude , brexit is a monumental blow for unionism across both islands
You like to bang the drum for Ulster. You list times of support for the United Kingdom. But, times change..... you know? Time and tide, waits for no man.
How do you think the English feel about what has been done to our country? How do you feel my Uncle, a prisoner of the Germans for five years in the war felt to see his country invaded by foreigners after his sacrifice? My wife's dad, 18 months in hospital after being badly injured in the war? His brother a prisoner of the Japanese for three long years? How do you think they felt seeing this once great country sold down the river?
We English watched your 'troubles' for 30 years. Then, in recent years, the bellyaching of the Scots. We're tired of it Ulsterman. Just real tired.
Now we have the DUP tail wagging the Tory government dog. The English voted by a large majority to leave the EU. We want out, and truly, we are tired of the Irish, and their problems living with each other. You can post patriotic videos, and sing the praises of past Ulster support for the UK all you want, it makes no difference.
We are aching for a leader who will put the vast majority English first, just for a change. It's time for some ruthlessness, and concern for the folks who are the vast majority of these islands. We need to focus on getting out of the EU, and show some backbone. The French know how to look out for their own self interest. Time we did the same.
I know and it does show me that some English like yourself exist. Perfidious Albion comes to mind. But we know how English people feel about Ulster. It was fairly obvious even before the 'troubles' when English people were out protesting about the condition of animals en route for slaughter and were worried about how they were contained in the trucks. Around the same time in Ulster policemen were being murdered and not a word of protest
So you don't have to tell me about some English people we already know where we stand.
I honestly think we should move the capital to Liverpool, there's no advantage to having both commercial wealth and political power being all concentrated in just one tiny region.
With that I also think there should be a united Ireland with the entire island of Ireland re-joining the United Kingdom under a devolved government.
The fact that Ireland sucks up so hard to the EU despite being completely battered by Brussels is completely emasculating. Ireland is tarnished as a top 10 most wanted country by the EU for money laundering. There's a big world out there outstripping growth in the EU by miles, a big world where these isles have strong and strategic links. Let's be fair the world is lining up to trade with us, it's the EU that are more scared hence their aggressive posture and our dilly-dallying.
The fight between Ulster and Connacht, Leinster & Munster is meaningless and antiquated. The bureaucratic dinosaurs in the unelected European commission are antiquated. Time to move on and embrace the wider world.
I know and it does show me that some English like yourself exist. Perfidious Albion comes to mind. But we know how English people feel about Ulster. It was fairly obvious even before the 'troubles' when English people were out protesting about the condition of animals en route for slaughter and were worried about how they were contained in the trucks. Around the same time in Ulster policemen were being murdered and not a word of protest
So you don't have to tell me about some English people we already know where we stand.
You just don't get it do you Ulsterman? No matter how many problems you cause us with your ancient quarrels, no matter how much money NI costs the English taxpayer, You think we owe you eternal loyalty.
If you and your countrymen don't like our desire to be free of NI, and out of the EU, then you can move over to England. The difficulty with that is we're already overwhelmed with foreigners from the EU, and outside it as well.
Our young people dream of a home of their own, and can't afford it because of lack of supply, and massive demand. We have to curb immigration, and if the EU had offered us a way out of free movement, then the vote would have gone to remain.
We have the problems Ulster causes us, and the whining Scots, who are never given enough, to deal with. We want to be out of the EU and try and rebuild my countries place in the world. It is going to be very difficult, and the EU will try and do us harm. With a smile of course.
We can't keep on worrying about hard borders, soft borders, no borders, or whatever in Ireland. As I have said before, we should have cut you adrift in 1972, and if we had, we wouldn't have this to deal with now.
Enough is enough, and the DUP's game playing is making the English annoyed. We have to find a way forward, or the only alternative will be for us to just walk away from the EU, and deal with the massive damage that will cause.
You just don't get it do you Ulsterman? No matter how many problems you cause us with your ancient quarrels, no matter how much money NI costs the English taxpayer, You think we owe you eternal loyalty.
If you and your countrymen don't like our desire to be free of NI, and out of the EU, then you can move over to England. The difficulty with that is we're already overwhelmed with foreigners from the EU, and outside it as well.
Our young people dream of a home of their own, and can't afford it because of lack of supply, and massive demand. We have to curb immigration, and if the EU had offered us a way out of free movement, then the vote would have gone to remain.
We have the problems Ulster causes us, and the whining Scots, who are never given enough, to deal with. We want to be out of the EU and try and rebuild my countries place in the world. It is going to be very difficult, and the EU will try and do us harm. With a smile of course.
We can't keep on worrying about hard borders, soft borders, no borders, or whatever in Ireland. As I have said before, we should have cut you adrift in 1972, and if we had, we wouldn't have this to deal with now.
Enough is enough, and the DUP's game playing is making the English annoyed. We have to find a way forward, or the only alternative will be for us to just walk away from the EU, and deal with the massive damage that will cause.
I think it is you who don't just get it. I have said before and I'll say it again..we know where we stand in relation to mainland UK. There are thousands maybe millions in Britain who would get rid of us with no hesitation. Ulster unionists accept that as we have seen it happen in other countries where England once ruled. They'd ditch us tomorrow. To coin the words of the song we are 'nobody's child'. But remember this it was not the unionists who murdered British soldiers when they were in Ulster.
I think it is you who don't just get it. I have said before and I'll say it again..we know where we stand in relation to mainland UK. There are thousands maybe millions in Britain who would get rid of us with no hesitation. Ulster unionists accept that as we have seen it happen in other countries where England once ruled. They'd ditch us tomorrow. To coin the words of the song we are 'nobody's child'. But remember this it was not the unionists who murdered British soldiers when they were in Ulster.
its sort of foolish to portray oneself as not needing anyone when your entire statelet is completely reliant on the good will of the english daves of this world
his ilk dont feel they owe you much of anything in 2017 , again it was unionists in northern ireland who had most to loose from brexit but voted for it anyway , they just could,nt help themselves
We want to be out of the EU and try and rebuild my countries place in the world. It is going to be very difficult, and the EU will try and do us harm. With a smile of course.
We can't keep on worrying about hard borders, soft borders, no borders, or whatever in Ireland.
I have been thinking about a hard border, and a possible Irexit. What if the UK and the Republic of Ireland both departed the EU, and ended in the same (alternative) trade network?
My computer hasn't been displaying enough information for me to post a link, but earlier today I came across an online article with the title Developing New Trade Markets In Latin America by Lochlann Quinn. The author was exploring possible trade partners for the Irish, diversifying away from the EU.
At one point (page 7) the author commented "The British Chamber of Commerce in Bogata Columbia are wiling to extend the chamber to make it the British and Irish Chamber of Commerce". Interesting idea, that the two countries would together explore new possibilities in trade.
It seems that the EU offers-at best-a few different no win options. I suspect that eventually the Irish will end up feeling burned by the EU. And eventually both countries will discover the same trade partners away from Europe.
Last edited by Tim Randal Walker; 12-06-2017 at 04:13 PM..
ive said it before on this site , the northern ireland situation alone should have ensured the brexit vote was an overwhelming remain result
Yes. I would have thought so too.
It seems that Ulster people are under the illusion that their love for or loyalty to Britain ought to be
reciprocated by similar feelings of English people. The Brexit vote quite clearly showed that most in England didn’t care about the NI problem, or rather quite egoistically just cared about England as Dave above admits.
If different regions/nations of a country no longer bother about each other there is not much point in staying together.
Quinn is skeptical about the BRICs (Brazil, Russia, India, China); to summarize, he describes these countries as highly protectionst.
Quinn is more enthusiastic about countries that have relatively open economies; Quinn listed these countries as being promising: Mexico, Columbia, Peru, and Chile. These are the founding members of the Pacific Alliance-the grouping that Martin Hutchinson was so enthusiastic about.
Last edited by Tim Randal Walker; 12-06-2017 at 05:37 PM..
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