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If you look at the 2010 immigration numbers - which takes out the recent 'refugee' influx - Germany, France and the UK, in that order, have the largest immigrant populations. The percentage is around 11% for all three.
In the UK, the perception that there are a great many immigrants is heightened by two factors. The first is the concentration in the London area where 36.7% of the population is foreign born and the second is immigration statistics which suggest that net immigration to the UK is accelerating.
Why is the UK attractive? Because the economy is strong and because most of them already speak some English and don't have to learn another language.
11% of what, population I assume ? Lets get some actual numbers, percentages are misleading. Also, this is 2017, why go all the way back to 2010?
There are other countries with stronger economies. The comment that most of them already speak some English is hog wash.
11% of what, population I assume ? Lets get some actual numbers, percentages are misleading. Also, this is 2017, why go all the way back to 2010
Actual numbers? What do you mean by actual numbers? An island with population 35 taking say 350k immigrants is an entirely different proposition than say a country of population 350m taking in the same 350k immigrants. Unless you're completely innumerate you understand rates, and why when comparing objects of differing characteristics you normalize to a rate in comparison to that characteristic. It's why typical country indicators are expressed as percentages or per 1000 or 100,000 or per million. Do you look at inflation and say, let's get some actual numbers because percentages are misleading, what's the total change in currency per year in Euros or Dollars or Sterling, or Yen, and if someone said Oh there's 200m more Euros than last year, what would that mean?
Quote:
Originally Posted by red baron
There are other countries with stronger economies. The comment that most of them already speak some English is hog wash.
You're German right? So in school you learned some English. Have you ever experienced being in a country where no one speaks your language? If not, then by what metric do you claim that speaking English is not an important criteria? Would you move lock stock and barrel to a country that does not speak a language you can converse in? If not then what makes you a non-representative immigrant? Even if your home country is a hell hole, when presented with several options, you're probably going to choose the option you can speak the language.
As far as bigger economies well 2016 nominal there's the US, China, Japan, Germany. Of those only Germany is in Europe, as far as refugees China and Japan are not preferred (Japan IIRC are refusing to accept refugees well they took 27 last year on asylum, China isn't taking Syrians).
11% of what, population I assume ? Lets get some actual numbers, percentages are misleading. Also, this is 2017, why go all the way back to 2010?
There are other countries with stronger economies. The comment that most of them already speak some English is hog wash.
So let's try again without any mumbo jumbo.
Oh dear ... did you have a 'senior moment"?
Now, I do appreciate that English is not your first language so I will make allowances.
The 11% is a percentage of overall population. If you want actual numbers then I can recommend Google.
I chose 2010, as I explained in my post, to take the recent refugee influx out of the equation.
I was not comparing the UK with other countries. As one of the largest and strongest economies in the world, my statement stands.
Most European - and indeed world - kids learn English at school. It tends to be the primary foreign language taught. So, yes, most immigrants speak some English.
We can't go it alone. Well, we have done in the past, but only in a war situation. We need to trade with the world. .
Indeed. The first countries I expect to make trade deals with the UK are Commonwealth countries, and the United States.
As discussed in other threads, there are other possibilities.
Regarding Jean-Claude Juncker, and the threat to fine the UK for even talking to prospective trade partners.... I believe that May and Trump have become partners in crime.
Indeed. The first countries I expect to make trade deals with the UK are Commonwealth countries, and the United States.
As discussed in other threads, there are other possibilities.
Regarding Jean-Claude Juncker, and the threat to fine the UK for even talking to prospective trade partners.... I believe that May and Trump have become partners in crime.
Once we hand in our notice, what's to stop us talking to prospective trade partners? Juncker threatens to fine us? May be we need to tell him we aren't paying no fines, and stick that where the sun doesn't shine!!.....
What they going to do about it? Make our exit any harder than they already intend to do? We need to study the French bloody minded manual.
What they going to do about it? Make our exit any harder than they already intend to do?
A systemic breach of EU law like that would probably result in the activation of Art 7 TEU. This Article allows the other member states and the EP to suspend the UK's membership rights for severe violations of the common values of the EU set out in Art 2 TEU.
So, it will be the same hard Brexit the UK is aiming for right now. Only two years earlier and without the prospect of amicable negotiations afterwards.
A systemic breach of EU law like that would probably result in the activation of Art 7 TEU. This Article allows the other member states and the EP to suspend the UK's membership rights for severe violations of the common values of the EU set out in Art 2 TEU.
So, it will be the same hard Brexit the UK is aiming for right now. Only two years earlier and without the prospect of amicable negotiations afterwards.
Activation of Art 7 TEU huh? Well we sure wouldn't want that to happen would we........ A hard brexit two years earlier sounds good to me. It'll save us wasting two years jawing pointlessly.
Severe violations of the common values of the EU........ well, that just makes me laugh out loud. Tell that to Hungary. Sooner we're out of living in this crazy EU Orwellian world the better.
Activation of Art 7 TEU huh? Well we sure wouldn't want that to happen would we........ A hard brexit two years earlier sounds good to me. It'll save us wasting two years jawing pointlessly.
Severe violations of the common values of the EU........ well, that just makes me laugh out loud. Tell that to Hungary. Sooner we're out of living in this crazy EU Orwellian world the better.
Well, I just answered your question. You can make whatever you want out of it.
Personally, I don't see the benefits of intentionally severing ties between both parties, but hey. If you want to break the rules, that's totally fine too. I'm not sure if that helps the UK's efforts to enter into new trade agreements, though. Be it with the EU or other entities.
Well, I just answered your question. You can make whatever you want out of it.
Personally, I don't see the benefits of intentionally severing ties between both parties, but hey. If you want to break the rules, that's totally fine too. I'm not sure if that helps the UK's efforts to enter into new trade agreements, though. Be it with the EU or other entities.
The EU is going to try and stitch us up no matter what we do, or say. A lot of jobs both ways depend on the EU doing trade with the UK. Lots of European jobs, especially in countries like Germany.
You want to hurt us? Go ahead. It won't be one way hurt. Put a muzzle on the French while you're at it.
The EU is going to try and stitch us up no matter what we do, or say. A lot of jobs both ways depend on the EU doing trade with the UK. Lots of European jobs, especially in countries like Germany.
You want to hurt us? Go ahead. It won't be one way hurt. Put a muzzle on the French while you're at it.
Frankly, I see it differently. The EU isn't doing much to threaten the United Kingdom. Blame your government for not letting you know about EU law. Everything that happened until now was fairly predictable by just reading the rules, namely the Treaty on the European Union and the Treaty on the Functioning of the European Union.
No Art 50 negotiations before triggering Art 50 and no FTA negotiations with the EU or any third countries before the UK left the EU are just two of the consequences straight from TFEU and TEU.
Mind you, a big problem was and is that your government misinformed the public about the consequences of Brexit. Might as well be because the government never talked about their post-Brexit plans. A referendum without a white paper is pretty crazy. Prime example is the whole soft/hard Brexit issue. Neither the EU nor the UK had the mandate to negotiate the terms of a soft Brexit. In essence, that would be a post-Brexit EU-UK FTA that cannot be negotiated at this point. This was spun into "The EU wants to punish the UK" by your press.
So, what do I think will realistically happen? Not much. The UK will eventually trigger Art 50 and both sides will stick to the rules, which means just to negotiate the bare minimum. Hard Brexit without any goodies. I don't think that the UK will officially negotiate any trade agreements during that time.
Behind closed doors and immediately after Brexit-proper, the UK and the EU will negotiate a deal that won't resemble the current relationship and will be inferior to the deals other European countries have (Switzerland, Norway, ...). The reason being that the EU can't grant the UK rights similar to those of full EU/EEA members or Switzerland. Also, the UK won't accept freedom of movement or major EU legislation.
Personally, I don't think it's very likely that other trade agreements get prioritised given economic reality. Despite all hard feelings, the UK will profit the most from a EU-UK FTA and the resources for negotiating such complex agreements are limited.
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