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I was making reference to other countries which are part of the UK, specifically Scotland and N. Ireland, both voted to remain in the EU. Admittedly not very well expressed, but that is what I meant.
No where did I suggest or imply that the UK adopt a system regarding Brexit similar to the way the US elects it's President. Having lived for many years I am on both sides of the Atlantic, I am not a confused European.
We are all well aware that the overall result was in favor of leaving the EU. England and Wales voted to stay, while Scotland and N.Ireland voted to remain. Yes I also fully understand that it was a democratic vote and the majority won. Now to the umpteenth time I will state my opinion that leave voters were wrong hanging their hat primarily on the sovereignty issue, foreign labour, lack of housing etc. etc. etc.
We have a saying in german, "were zuletzt lacht lacht am besten".
Enjoy.
The other "Countries" in the UK are not internationally recognized countries, they're not any more sovereign than the Basque region of Spain or Texas. They're not even in the EU, so they can't vote to remain, you can't remain somewhere you are not that's a logical impossibility, it would require getting somewhere, then remaining. The UK voted to leave, they're part of the UK and yes the UK can leave.
As far as sovereignty is concerned, well, are voters wrong to hang their hat on that? What do Greeks say? How about Poles?
Yes I know the phrase, the phrase we use is he who laughs last laughs longest. The longest laugh has yet to be determined and except for the deluded the challenges for both the EU and UK the last laugh has yet to be determined.
Stating my opinion is not trolling, even if it is repetitive. The referendum vote was democratic alright and in favor of leaving. However, in my opinion the bare majority was misguided, misinformed and misunderstood that BREXIT would have a detrimental effect on the UK economy. Of course the British are well known for being stubborn to the point of self destruction. Instead of admitting that you were wrong you will keep on going, gritting your teeth and smiling. Have at it, it's your country, England that is. How come the other UK countries are being ignored, don't their citizens votes and opinion count.
If you don't like my comments you don't have to read them, or put me on ignore.
Red, I really feel you don't get it at all. We voted out, and have no regrets. We want the government to get on with the process. We hope the damage to the economy won't be as bad as feared, but we want out of the EU.
It has nothing to do with being stubborn. I, and I assume others who voted out, recognise we cannot carry on with this amount of immigration. It is causing strains everywhere. The EU wouldn't listen to our concerns. Even David Cameron recognised this. All they do is say its one of the pillars of the EU, and isn't up for discussion.
The immigration will continue if we remain in the EU. These people aren't concerned about problems they cause. They don't care about the strains, and worries of the people of this country. They will keep coming without end. We have to regain control of who comes to live in the UK. Nothing is more important than this.
Eventually, the swollen population will mean many areas of this country, which is now countryside, will have housing built on it. There is little choice. Even complete stopping of immigration, which won't happen, won't stop the population continuing to grow. Most of the immigrants we have received in recent years are young, and will have families.
But, we have to do something to at least slow the increase down. Mass building of homes is needed, similar to what was seen after the Second World War. We can't carry on the way we are with massive rents, and folks unable to afford to buy a home. There is more to this country than London. The elites can't have it all their own way forever. This problem has to be tackled, and soon.
The EU is a busted flush, and the problems within it will grow. It is too big, with too many countries taking and not giving. The problems with countries like Greece have not gone away. We are going to leave, and the sooner the better.
Time we retired those old men and women in the House of Lords. Threats have gone their way if they try and cause any major problems. They represent nobody but the rich elites of this country. They need throwing into the dustbin of history.
Most are either sleeping or dont turn up ... yes get rid of the lot..they will never know how the other half live and probably dont care either..
The other "Countries" in the UK are not internationally recognized countries, they're not any more sovereign than the Basque region of Spain or Texas. They're not even in the EU, so they can't vote to remain, you can't remain somewhere you are not that's a logical impossibility, it would require getting somewhere, then remaining. The UK voted to leave, they're part of the UK and yes the UK can leave.
As far as sovereignty is concerned, well, are voters wrong to hang their hat on that? What do Greeks say? How about Poles?
Yes I know the phrase, the phrase we use is he who laughs last laughs longest. The longest laugh has yet to be determined and except for the deluded the challenges for both the EU and UK the last laugh has yet to be determined.
Quote:
Originally Posted by English Dave
Red, I really feel you don't get it at all. We voted out, and have no regrets. We want the government to get on with the process. We hope the damage to the economy won't be as bad as feared, but we want out of the EU.
It has nothing to do with being stubborn. I, and I assume others who voted out, recognise we cannot carry on with this amount of immigration. It is causing strains everywhere. The EU wouldn't listen to our concerns. Even David Cameron recognised this. All they do is say its one of the pillars of the EU, and isn't up for discussion.
The immigration will continue if we remain in the EU. These people aren't concerned about problems they cause. They don't care about the strains, and worries of the people of this country. They will keep coming without end. We have to regain control of who comes to live in the UK. Nothing is more important than this.
Eventually, the swollen population will mean many areas of this country, which is now countryside, will have housing built on it. There is little choice. Even complete stopping of immigration, which won't happen, won't stop the population continuing to grow. Most of the immigrants we have received in recent years are young, and will have families.
But, we have to do something to at least slow the increase down. Mass building of homes is needed, similar to what was seen after the Second World War. We can't carry on the way we are with massive rents, and folks unable to afford to buy a home. There is more to this country than London. The elites can't have it all their own way forever. This problem has to be tackled, and soon.
The EU is a busted flush, and the problems within it will grow. It is too big, with too many countries taking and not giving. The problems with countries like Greece have not gone away. We are going to leave, and the sooner the better.
Time to give it a break, for me that is. There may be other subjects and issues we can agree or disagree on. Talk to you later. Right now I am more concerned about the blizzards hitting New England. To much snow and power outages. Had no electricity on Tuesday for a few hours. Got a bit cold but we survived. Stay warm and TTFN.
Personally, I would prefer to keep the Upper Chamber, purely because it acts as a further level of scrutiny for Bills that come up from the House of Commons.
i realise the HoL cannot prevent a Bill from becoming Law, but it does have the power to ask for amendments and/or clarifications; and as such can return the Bill to the Lower Chamber for further consultation.
I still think the Upper Chamber needs further reform (if memory serves, a level of reform was made in the early 2000s whereby judicial overview was removed from the Chamber and taken up the Supreme Court) But this still didn't get round the ongoing complaint that the Chamber is full of hereditary peers, political appointees and the usual cronyism.
By removing judicial overview, it kind of blurs who has the ultimate say introducing new laws! Is it with the Lower or Upper chambers, or with the Supreme Court?
Stating my opinion is not trolling, even if it is repetitive. The referendum vote was democratic alright and in favor of leaving. However, in my opinion the bare majority was misguided, misinformed and misunderstood that BREXIT would have a detrimental effect on the UK economy. Of course the British are well known for being stubborn to the point of self destruction. Instead of admitting that you were wrong you will keep on going, gritting your teeth and smiling. Have at it, it's your country, England that is. How come the other UK countries are being ignored, don't their citizens votes and opinion count.
If you don't like my comments you don't have to read them, or put me on ignore.
What makes you think the British now think they were 'wrong'? There hasn't been any of the negative impacts the 'doom mongers' said would happen that have actually happened, in fact I reckon that if they gave us the vote again now even more would vote to leave! The other 'UK countries' weren't ignored, they had the vote too! The only person that seems to really have a problem with it is you! And I believe you are German! Tell me, after failing twice by force, is the EU a third attempt for Germany to take over Europe? Have the British 'thwarted' you again!
I was making reference to other countries which are part of the UK, specifically Scotland and N. Ireland, both voted to remain in the EU. Admittedly not very well expressed, but that is what I meant.
No where did I suggest or imply that the UK adopt a system regarding Brexit similar to the way the US elects it's President. Having lived for many years I am on both sides of the Atlantic, I am not a confused European.
We are all well aware that the overall result was in favor of leaving the EU. England and Wales voted to stay, while Scotland and N.Ireland voted to remain. Yes I also fully understand that it was a democratic vote and the majority won. Now to the umpteenth time I will state my opinion that leave voters were wrong hanging their hat primarily on the sovereignty issue, foreign labour, lack of housing etc. etc. etc.
We have a saying in german, "were zuletzt lacht lacht am besten".
Enjoy.
Wrong the overall result wasn't in 'favor' of leaving the EU it was in 'favour' of leaving the EU.
What makes you think the British now think they were 'wrong'? There hasn't been any of the negative impacts the 'doom mongers' said would happen that have actually happened, in fact I reckon that if they gave us the vote again now even more would vote to leave! The other 'UK countries' weren't ignored, they had the vote too! The only person that seems to really have a problem with it is you! And I believe you are German! Tell me, after failing twice by force, is the EU a third attempt for Germany to take over Europe? Have the British 'thwarted' you again!
Quote:
Originally Posted by easthome
Wrong the overall result wasn't in 'favor' of leaving the EU it was in 'favour' of leaving the EU.
Nasty, nasty. We have taken over Europe, that is the main reason for the UK getting out. Tough to swallow having to live by German rules and laws. That is OK, very few are going to miss you. Of course I am German, would never hide it and I am proud of it. I am also very European, something very foreign to a Brit.
Picky, picky. It's "favour" when I am with my English relatives. When in USA it is of course "favor".
Anyway, as I said elsewhere I am going to give the BREXIT issue a break. Enjoy the lengthy negotiations. I hope you will be happy with the end result.
Nasty, nasty. We have taken over Europe, that is the main reason for the UK getting out. Tough to swallow having to live by German rules and laws. That is OK, very few are going to miss you. Of course I am German, would never hide it and I am proud of it. I am also very European, something very foreign to a Brit.
Picky, picky. It's "favour" when I am with my English relatives. When in USA it is of course "favor".
Anyway, as I said elsewhere I am going to give the BREXIT issue a break. Enjoy the lengthy negotiations. I hope you will be happy with the end result.
I just knew it! Give it another couple of years and the French will want us to come and 'save them' again! Telling me that our European 'friends' aren't going to miss us is a bit like telling me the earth spins on its axis, we already know! Our Euro 'friends' have been making it quite clear for many years now what they think of us, the thing is we really don't care. What I suggest now is that you make French the 'Euro' language and go make a French 'City Data' somewhere.
I just knew it! Give it another couple of years and the French will want us to come and 'save them' again! Telling me that our European 'friends' aren't going to miss us is a bit like telling me the earth spins on its axis, we already know! Our Euro 'friends' have been making it quite clear for many years now what they think of us, the thing is we really don't care. What I suggest now is that you make French the 'Euro' language and go make a French 'City Data' somewhere.
We have always been the outsiders in the EU. Goes back decades. We just have a different mentality. The French despise us, and have always done so. The Germans want us in to help carry the load, but we have just had enough of it, and want out.
It was ok when just a small group of major countries, but some one had the bright idea of letting in the riff-raff. I don't include Poland in that group, We are friends and allies going back many years. But some of the other Eastern European countries just have their hands held out. We have received some of their good citizens, and also many bad. We don't need gypsies for sure. They are a blight on the landscape of their own countries, and they must love getting rid of them onto us. We're just tired of it.
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