Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
On the contrary, Manhattan had far more nightclubs before gentrification than it has now. Rising real estate and rental costs have priced most of them out of existence.
Definitely not true. There's far more nightlife in NYC right now than during the 1970's and 1980's.
Back then, the city had 1.5 million fewer people, and it was unsafe at night, so people tended to stay home. The streets were a lot emptier, day and night, back then. And there was much less money sloshing around the city, so less disposable income for leisure.
I remember the first time I stepped foot in Manhattan, in 1992, which is roughly the end of the "bad old days". The Lower East Side was a ghost town at night compared to now. There was no one out. There was hardly anywhere to eat in that neighborhood after nightfall. Now the streets are wall-to-wall nightlife/restaurant/club type stuff.
Also renting is simply easier as is obvious. You don't have to think about the future, you can get out of a rental agreement far easier than your house. You don't have to think as much so people obviously take renting over buying for many reasons both real and mental.
The buy or rent debate has been fought 1000x on this forum and will probably be fought 1000x more. However, when you boil it down you have only two choices in life.
Choice A is to pay off your own mortgage.
Choice B is to pay off someone else's mortgage by renting.
I don't think you are going to find many people who see Choice B being a better financial plan than Choice A, especially when the rates are so low that a mortgage costs less per month than rent.
In 25 years, I can sell this house and any money received for its sale will go directly to my wife and I.
In 25 years of renting, you can move out of your rental and receive... nothing.
As for 2008... We didn't live in our house then but my father lived in his and today it is worth much more than it was in 2007.
I'm not sure what is being debated here. It seems like a no-brainer to me.
The buy or rent debate has been fought 1000x on this forum and will probably be fought 1000x more. However, when you boil it down you have only two choices in life.
Choice A is to pay off your own mortgage.
Choice B is to pay off someone else's mortgage by renting.
I don't think you are going to find many people who see Choice B being a better financial plan than Choice A, especially when the rates are so low that a mortgage costs less per month than rent.
In 25 years, I can sell this house and any money received for its sale will go directly to my wife and I.
In 25 years of renting, you can move out of your rental and receive... nothing.
As for 2008... We didn't live in our house then but my father lived in his and today it is worth much more than it was in 2007.
I'm not sure what is being debated here. It seems like a no-brainer to me.
It is not a no-brainer at all;
- It is more difficult to get a home loan than to rent a place, even when the rent exceeds what the home loan would cost per month. Many people are renting a place that they would never be able to get a loan for. Rent generally goes by three times the income for rent, with little regard for other obligations, whereas for a home loan, they take very much into account other obligations. A person that can easily get into a place where rent is $2000/mth, can find it difficult to impossible to obtain a loan in which the payments would be that same amount.
- Many people are still mobile, meaning they know they have a good chance of moving every few years.
- People perhaps want to live in specific areas, areas which have a shortage of available homes for sale, loans are not available (like for condo units), or they can afford the rent with roommates, but would never get a loan for such a place.
Additionally, some people just are not interested in owning a place. The ability to just up and move is valued greatly. If they have idiot neighbors, a poor HOA/condo association, do not like the location, etc, they can just move basically right away. They place a high value on that.
- It is more difficult to get a home loan than to rent a place, even when the rent exceeds what the home loan would cost per month. Many people are renting a place that they would never be able to get a loan for. Rent generally goes by three times the income for rent, with little regard for other obligations, whereas for a home loan, they take very much into account other obligations. A person that can easily get into a place where rent is $2000/mth, can find it difficult to impossible to obtain a loan in which the payments would be that same amount.
- Many people are still mobile, meaning they know they have a good chance of moving every few years.
- People perhaps want to live in specific areas, areas which have a shortage of available homes for sale, loans are not available (like for condo units), or they can afford the rent with roommates, but would never get a loan for such a place.
Additionally, some people just are not interested in owning a place. The ability to just up and move is valued greatly. If they have idiot neighbors, a poor HOA/condo association, do not like the location, etc, they can just move basically right away. They place a high value on that.
Wow one of the best posts I've ever read on this forum... pretty definitive takedown of the "renting is just throwing your money away!" mindset.
The buy or rent debate has been fought 1000x on this forum and will probably be fought 1000x more. However, when you boil it down you have only two choices in life.
Choice A is to pay off your own mortgage.
Choice B is to pay off someone else's mortgage by renting.
I don't think you are going to find many people who see Choice B being a better financial plan than Choice A, especially when the rates are so low that a mortgage costs less per month than rent.
In 25 years, I can sell this house and any money received for its sale will go directly to my wife and I.
In 25 years of renting, you can move out of your rental and receive... nothing.
As for 2008... We didn't live in our house then but my father lived in his and today it is worth much more than it was in 2007.
I'm not sure what is being debated here. It seems like a no-brainer to me.
Also consider that the stock market has greater returns than real estate, at least in the U.S. over the past century or so:
"A $100 investment in the average home (as tracked by the Home Price Index from the Federal Housing Finance Agency (FHFA)) in 1975 would have grown to about $500 by 2013. A similar $100 investment in the S&P 500 over that time frame would have grown to approximately $1,600."
- It is more difficult to get a home loan than to rent a place, even when the rent exceeds what the home loan would cost per month. Many people are renting a place that they would never be able to get a loan for. Rent generally goes by three times the income for rent, with little regard for other obligations, whereas for a home loan, they take very much into account other obligations. A person that can easily get into a place where rent is $2000/mth, can find it difficult to impossible to obtain a loan in which the payments would be that same amount.
$2000/mo. for a mortgage payment? Our mortgage payment is nowhere close to that.
However, if you work a minimum wage job or have an excessively high debt load, I can see why you might be stuck paying rent. However, if you can afford to come up with the $4000 for your first and last month's rent, I have a hard time believing you lack the resources to purchase a modest home.
Quote:
- Many people are still mobile, meaning they know they have a good chance of moving every few years.
I would tend to think that this is the exception rather than the rule. I don't know anybody who is "too mobile" to purchase a home. I do have a friend that had to move due to his job, so he simply rents out his home to cover the mortgage while he is gone.
Quote:
- People perhaps want to live in specific areas, areas which have a shortage of available homes for sale, loans are not available (like for condo units), or they can afford the rent with roommates, but would never get a loan for such a place.
Again, outside some specific areas, I do not believe this is the norm for most of Canada and the U.S.
Quote:
Additionally, some people just are not interested in owning a place. The ability to just up and move is valued greatly. If they have idiot neighbors, a poor HOA/condo association, do not like the location, etc, they can just move basically right away. They place a high value on that.
It is easier to rent out your home and move away than it is to break a lease and have to go to court over it. As for HOA... We don't have such a thing up here in Canada. In fact, I never heard of one until I joined this forum. As for buying in a bad location... You would have to be an idiot altogether to buy a home in a bad location without doing your research first (same goes for an HOA, for that matter).
Again... Paying someone else's mortgage rather than your own is a fool's game. You have provided nothing to convince me otherwise.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbgusa
Also real estate can go down as well as up in value.
Again... Regardless of what my home may or may not be worth in 25 years, I will still pocket whatever I can sell it for. Your rental is worth exactly nothing as far as what you would receive after 25 years of living there.
Plenty of people are too mobile to own a home, e.g. military personnel. I moved almost every year in my twenties.
Almost every west coast city and a growing number of east coast ones have large populations that can afford the rent but can't come close to owning. Even in Austin there are neighborhoods with affordable rentals but the much larger homes in the same areas are beyond my budget.
Don't know the rules where you are but in Texas there is no need to go to court for breaking a lease. There is a fee for 85% of one months rent, but many people can even get around this by subletting under the table. Renting out a house is a pain and monitoring tenants is not something I'd want to do, especially from afar. Also in Texas you lose your homestead exemption by not living in the house, which is about the only protection we have from rising property appraisals.
Also keep in mind if you buy and sell the same house within a two year period you can be subject to capital gains taxes, even after paying for origination fees, title insurance, realtor commission, etc.
$2000/mo. for a mortgage payment? Our mortgage payment is nowhere close to that.
However, if you work a minimum wage job or have an excessively high debt load, I can see why you might be stuck paying rent. However, if you can afford to come up with the $4000 for your first and last month's rent, I have a hard time believing you lack the resources to purchase a modest home.
I would tend to think that this is the exception rather than the rule. I don't know anybody who is "too mobile" to purchase a home. I do have a friend that had to move due to his job, so he simply rents out his home to cover the mortgage while he is gone.
Again, outside some specific areas, I do not believe this is the norm for most of Canada and the U.S.
It is easier to rent out your home and move away than it is to break a lease and have to go to court over it. As for HOA... We don't have such a thing up here in Canada. In fact, I never heard of one until I joined this forum. As for buying in a bad location... You would have to be an idiot altogether to buy a home in a bad location without doing your research first (same goes for an HOA, for that matter).
Again... Paying someone else's mortgage rather than your own is a fool's game. You have provided nothing to convince me otherwise.
Again... Regardless of what my home may or may not be worth in 25 years, I will still pocket whatever I can sell it for. Your rental is worth exactly nothing as far as what you would receive after 25 years of living there.
I am going to say flat out you are very out of touch with the cost of housing in some of the areas which are gentrifying. For example, these days in DC, houses, whether they be SFH or TH/rowhouse west of the river (the safer areas of DC) start at $500k. These are the modest houses. Condos, small ones, start at $350k. I stress the word "START". Because the reality is it does go up from there. It is not uncommon these days to see row houses going for $1 million.
I will not even get into NYC and SF pricing since it makes DC, Boston, and Seattle all look cheap in comparison. The $4000 is not going to get you much in terms of purchasing in most of these cities.
I should note, only a small handful of cities is actually gentrifying in any meaningful way. But those that are it should be noted your understanding from a lower COL city often does not apply.
I am not anti-gentrification either. I just like to recognize the reality even if I do support it.
I should also note, I am a homeowner in DC. There are benefits to it, one is that it stabilizes costs long term in ways that renting does not.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
