Raising tweens/teens in Park City as a non-mormon (Salt Lake City: sale, houses)

[kavm]

I too think that the single dominant religion plays a role in how it is perceived. In my past, one of my friendliest, closest and the most helpful colleague when I began my career at Cornell was a LDS gentleman (who now happens to be a distinguished professor at BYU). I really admired him for his positivism. His LDS membership did not mean anything to me (nor do these things mean a whole lot to me even now). I have mentioned that I could not admire more what Jon Huntsman, Senior he has done for the people in this state and outside of it. It is simply without too many equals. I have met some of his family and the values he instilled in them are terrific. So, there is appreciation for the good LDS (and non-LDS) people as there is resentment towards not so good (LDS and non-LDS) people.

But - the dominant religion playing so huge implicit and explicit role in the governance of this state (and, by implications - all the non-Mormon citizens as well) comes with some implicit responsibility. The (particularly non-LDS) citizens see the elected officials in this state being corrupt, not representing them well or taking their sensibilities into account when running this state. They correlate the Mormonism being the most Republican of the religions and its past leadership (e.g. Ezra Taft Benson) aligning the Church with the ruling (Republican) party in the State and so on - their dissatisfaction and resentment towards the government does, rightly or wrongly, end up extending to the LDS church.

It is hard to miss that a lot of the reported interventions from the LDS Church into the Utah politics/governance are narrowly focused at advancing its point of view. It creates the perception that the LDS church is keen to push its ideas on the people of this State, when a lot of the citizens that do not belong to it. The socially liberal positions do not have a chance for even a fair debate if they diverge from the Church policy. So, the non-LDS citizens are governed by a regime that's crafted with a heavy weight placed on the LDS church's positions. If the positions were broadly seen to be benevolent and covering believers and non-believers (e.g. what's coming out of the Catholic Church under Pope Francis), that might counter the perception - but that is simply not the case (no environmental encyclical here). So, the LDS people should not be surprised that there is resentment. You can tell us to deal with it or move on - but don't expect us to like it.

A greater separation of Church and State is what is needed, but that's not on the cards.

[Katzpur]

Originally Posted by kavm

I too think that the single dominant religion plays a role in how it is perceived. In my past, one of my friendliest, closest and the most helpful colleague when I began my career at Cornell was a LDS gentleman (who now happens to be a distinguished professor at BYU). I really admired him for his positivism. His LDS membership did not mean anything to me (nor do these things mean a whole lot to me even now). I have mentioned that I could not admire more what Jon Huntsman, Senior he has done for the people in this state and outside of it. It is simply without too many equals. I have met some of his family and the values he instilled in them are terrific. So, there is appreciation for the good LDS (and non-LDS) people as there is resentment towards not so good (LDS and non-LDS) people.

But - the dominant religion playing so huge implicit and explicit role in the governance of this state (and, by implications - all the non-Mormon citizens as well) comes with some implicit responsibility. The (particularly non-LDS) citizens see the elected officials in this state being corrupt, not representing them well or taking their sensibilities into account when running this state. They correlate the Mormonism being the most Republican of the religions and its past leadership (e.g. Ezra Taft Benson) aligning the Church with the ruling (Republican) party in the State and so on - their dissatisfaction and resentment towards the government does, rightly or wrongly, end up extending to the LDS church.

It is hard to miss that a lot of the reported interventions from the LDS Church into the Utah politics/governance are narrowly focused at advancing its point of view. It creates the perception that the LDS church is keen to push its ideas on the people of this State, when a lot of the citizens that do not belong to it. The socially liberal positions do not have a chance for even a fair debate if they diverge from the Church policy. So, the non-LDS citizens are governed by a regime that's crafted with a heavy weight placed on the LDS church's positions. If the positions were broadly seen to be benevolent and covering believers and non-believers (e.g. what's coming out of the Catholic Church under Pope Francis), that might counter the perception - but that is simply not the case (no environmental encyclical here). So, the LDS people should not be surprised that there is resentment. You can tell us to deal with it or move on - but don't expect us to like it.

A greater separation of Church and State is what is needed, but that's not on the cards.

Very well-stated. I couldn't agree more.

[Katzpur]

Originally Posted by Hiruko

I am Jewish and LDS.

Originally Posted by kletter1mann

Maybe you can tell us how that works.

Here's your answer.

[kletter1mann]

Originally Posted by Katzpur

Here's your answer.

Wow, who knew? Thanks for that! Nevertheless (and this coming from somebody who lived in a 50% Jewish town, has Jewish business partners and mostly Jewish friends), it's not something I see working for many Jews. I'm going to forward to a few people and see what they say!

[Hiruko]

Originally Posted by kletter1mann

Wow, who knew? Thanks for that! Nevertheless (and this coming from somebody who lived in a 50% Jewish town, has Jewish business partners and mostly Jewish friends), it's not something I see working for many Jews. I'm going to forward to a few people and see what they say!

It's never been a problem in my family. I'm ethnically and halachically Jewish, but LDS by faith. I was raised LDS, but I also participated in some Jewish life cycle events. I also periodically attend synagogue during the High Holy days and whenever I see fit. However, my foremost faith background and observance is Mormonism. Growing up, it was not only my family that had a Jewish background. There were a few Jewish convert couples and families in the ward I spent most of my childhood in. I'm also not the only Jewish Latter-day Saint in my current ward. Some well-known LDS Church members come from a Jewish background. Landra Reid, Harry Reid's wife, and Jason Chaffetz come to mind. That Haaretz article is a great read. I've shared it many times.

[AndyDwyer480]

Wow it’s surprising to me so many don’t want to live near Mormons and are just ok telling people.

Did the ‘i Don’t want to live near Muslims ‘ thread get deleted for racism and all the Mormons are still targets?

[Katzpur]

Originally Posted by AndyDwyer480

Wow it’s surprising to me so many don’t want to live near Mormons and are just ok telling people.

Did the ‘i Don’t want to live near Muslims ‘ thread get deleted for racism and all the Mormons are still targets?

Apparently. I honestly don't understand what it is about Mormons that makes people want to make sure they don't live by us. Do they even think how it must make Mormons feel to hear people say, "We love Utah and have decided we would like to relocate there. Could anyone please tell us where we can fine a nice place to live in or around Salt Lake City where there aren't a lot of Mormons?"

[kavm]

In the past posts, I have shared some issues with Utah overall and have not been too positive about the role of the LDS church in the state politics. But this 'not live close to mormons' sentiment, not to mention how explicitly and unabashedly it is expressed, is regrettable. Let me share a recent heartwarming experience....

My wife and I live on the East benches and regularly walk on the Devonshire Drive and Acadia trail that is a part of the Bonneville trail. About 10 days ago, we got caught in a bad thunderstorm - with hard rain and some amount of lightening when out for a walk. So, we took shelter under a street tree to evaluate our options - but we were sure to get drenched at a minimum. On comes someone in a car - stops to offer us ride and drives us to our home. This was a lady that saw us walking by from her window, saw the situation and got in the car to look for us to give us a ride and shelter. And, she did not know us at all - apart from perhaps seeing us on our walks.

Incredibly thoughtful and generous. Better person than either of us. Not sure but it is likely that she is a Mormon. I would not be surprised if this is part of values she is taught in the context of her religion.

So, as I have said previously - there are very good mormon and non-mormon people in the world around us - and we are richer for them. There are not so good mormon and non-mormon people around us - and we would like not to live close to them. You can substitute blacks, muslims, jews, foreigners, refugees, illegals for mormons in that sentiments - and my statements above would work just fine for us.

PS: Let me add a perspective from my personal background. I emigrated from India which is a source of some large religions (Hinduism, Budhism and others). It is also home to Muslims (second largest Muslim population in the world, Christians, and even a small minority of Jews. It is also home to religious strife - particularly along the Hindu-Muslim divide. Religions do some good things - teach the the followers positive values and ways live and to co-exist. Yet, they can often become divisive - promoting us-versus-them divisions, feeding divisive stereotypes in a echo chamber of the followers, engendering negative sentiments across both sides of the grouping. That's why religion has been so destructive a force in the history of the world. All of us need to watch out for this negative dimension, even though it is easier said than done.

[Hiruko]

Originally Posted by AndyDwyer480

Wow it’s surprising to me so many don’t want to live near Mormons and are just ok telling people.

Did the ‘i Don’t want to live near Muslims ‘ thread get deleted for racism and all the Mormons are still targets?

For whatever reason, Mormons aren't seen as a vulnerable minority. That's very ironic given the history. Even the current hostility that is expressed in multiple facets of American society (politics, popular culture, academia, etc.) towards the community should raise some concern in my opinion.

I also think that conversations about separation of church and state in Utah should be mindful of the history of both the Church, its people, and the State of Utah. When you better understand that history, I think you are more able to appreciate why things are the way they are.

I do want to say that I understand entirely the OP's uncomfortable experience living and raising children in Utah County as someone who is not Mormon. I can see how that would be challenging, just as it would be challenging for someone to live in an overwhelmingly Orthodox Jewish community or a Spanish-speaking community while not being a part of that dominant culture. It is definitely easier for a variety of people to find their place in more diverse or cosmopolitan communities.

In that context, it is more understandable. However, you are correct that on this forum there is an epidemic of people with baseless and overt prejudice against a group of people with which they have no familiarity.

[kavm]

Originally Posted by Hiruko

...
I also think that conversations about separation of church and state in Utah should be mindful of the history of both the Church, its people, and the State of Utah. When you better understand that history, I think you are more able to appreciate why things are the way they are.
...

I agree with the rest of your post, but would like to highlight that while the history might help us understand why something is the way it is - but it does not necessarily lead us to accept that that's the way it should be, particularly going forward.