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Old 05-03-2012, 08:24 AM
 
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I went for a day and a half this past weekend mostly in Burlington and a tad in Montpelier on the way back. I have some questions/comments

1) Outside of these two towns/cities the place was very rural. I could drive for miles upon miles of rural farm land and just open space. There is so much open space I have to ask does the state own it? I know it might sounds a tad odd but if more towns were developed then the drive might not seem as long. Maybe the state could make some incentives for rural development into suburban

2) Most of the houses I saw in Burlington looked immaculate, at least from the outside. Is there some local code for this because I don't know if other areas would look as good unless it was enforced. Also supply stores for upkeep? I didn't see a home depot or lowes, just a few hardware stores. Do people horde or make their own paint/nails etc.

3) Lake Champlain looks nice but I have to ask how much activity goes on it? Does it allow fishing, swimming and boat? I know it's still spring but I didn't see that much going on it. Does it freeze during the winter?

4) I noticed a fair amount of the greenery wasn't there. I know about the hurricane last year (had to take down a few trees where I live) I'm assuming the lack of greenery is from the dryness lately..is this the case?

5) Maybe this might start a flame war but would it be safe to say that Burlington is kinda turning into a Cambridge like atmosphere?
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Old 05-03-2012, 11:10 AM
 
Location: Vermont
3,329 posts, read 8,784,746 times
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1. The land is mostly privately owned. There are some state owned lands but those are mostly in the mountains. The majority of people who live here like it like this and don't want to see it turned into suburbia. Plus we don't have the population to support massive suburban development. You see it in greater Burlington but thats about it.

2. I'm not sure about Burlington but some towns have design review codes. Woodstock comes to mind. There IS a Home Depot and 2 Lowe's in greater Burlington (South Burlington, Williston, Essex Jct). Guess you didn't see 'em.

3. Lake Champlain. Yes. It gets plenty of use year round. Swimming, boating, fishing - there are a couple really big fishing tournaments every year. Kite surfing. In the winter is ice fishing and kite surfing with skis or snowboards. Parts of the lake freeze up sure. Especially the bays. This year it didn't totally freeze over because it was so warm.

4. Greenery? Its still spring here. It doesn't get really, fully green until mid-May. You were just here too early.

5. Don't have an answer for ya.
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Old 05-03-2012, 11:20 AM
 
48 posts, read 91,704 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vter View Post
1. The land is mostly privately owned. There are some state owned lands but those are mostly in the mountains. The majority of people who live here like it like this and don't want to see it turned into suburbia. Plus we don't have the population to support massive suburban development. You see it in greater Burlington but thats about it.

2. I'm not sure about Burlington but some towns have design review codes. Woodstock comes to mind. There IS a Home Depot and 2 Lowe's in greater Burlington (South Burlington, Williston, Essex Jct). Guess you didn't see 'em.

3. Lake Champlain. Yes. It gets plenty of use year round. Swimming, boating, fishing - there are a couple really big fishing tournaments every year. Kite surfing. In the winter is ice fishing and kite surfing with skis or snowboards. Parts of the lake freeze up sure. Especially the bays. This year it didn't totally freeze over because it was so warm.

4. Greenery? Its still spring here. It doesn't get really, fully green until mid-May. You were just here too early.

5. Don't have an answer for ya.
I've been looking at Maine also and like it, but this "tree growth tax law" is a real turn-off.

Does Vermont have the same type of programs?

Maine's Tree Growth law gives massive tax breaks to landowners big and small | Sun Journal
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Old 05-03-2012, 11:33 AM
 
Location: Somewhere in northern Alabama
17,865 posts, read 54,168,671 times
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I went for a day and a half this past weekend mostly in Burlington and a tad in Montpelier on the way back. I have some questions/comments

Oh good, this should be fun.

1) Outside of these two towns/cities the place was very rural. I could drive for miles upon miles of rural farm land and just open space. There is so much open space I have to ask does the state own it? I know it might sounds a tad odd but if more towns were developed then the drive might not seem as long. Maybe the state could make some incentives for rural development into suburban

There is a National Forest between those two cities, and I'm sure some hill farms long ago lost out to back taxes, but a surprising amount is still private property.

The state doesn't want more towns. The state doesn't want suburbia. The state doesn't want development. I suspect you don't realize how amusing that comment about "incentives" is to a Vermonter. Vermont - not your average New Jersey.

2) Most of the houses I saw in Burlington looked immaculate, at least from the outside. Is there some local code for this because I don't know if other areas would look as good unless it was enforced. Also supply stores for upkeep? I didn't see a home depot or lowes, just a few hardware stores. Do people horde or make their own paint/nails etc.

I remember making my own nails as a kid. Hard work it was. I had to find old horseshoes, heat them up, and bang off little bits to make into nails. The people in Burlington have neat houses because all the college kids sneak around at night cleaning up yards and gathering up trash. The Lowes is in City Hall. Second door to the right as you enter, just a small room, but with everyone making their own nails that is all that is needed.

(Yes there is zoning and code enforcement, like many places, there is a big box store or two out in Williston, and I can't recall ever having met a paint hoarder.)

3) Lake Champlain looks nice but I have to ask how much activity goes on it? Does it allow fishing, swimming and boat? I know it's still spring but I didn't see that much going on it. Does it freeze during the winter?

Well there were a few revolutionary war battles fought on it, but eventually the Brits gave it up as hopeless. Who can fight against people willing to make their own nails? I never asked the lake what it allowed, but I have gone boating, sailing, swimming, fishing, ice fishing and diving there. Once you get down about five feet, it is cold. Some years it does freeze all the way across, other years not.

4) I noticed a fair amount of the greenery wasn't there. I know about the hurricane last year (had to take down a few trees where I live) I'm assuming the lack of greenery is from the dryness lately..is this the case?


The greenery was being hoarded by the eco-nuts. They want to keep it all for themselves. Fortunately, the Vermonters can sometimes nail them to the trees. (They make the trees grow greener.)

(It was just a late spring)

5) Maybe this might start a flame war but would it be safe to say that Burlington is kinda turning into a Cambridge like atmosphere?


Cambridge? As in Cambridge Vermont? I didn't realize that the reputation of the town had spread so far. Ever since the railroad pulled up tracks, it has been kinda sleepy. I will say though that the religious group that inhabited it in the 1800s did raise a few eyebrows, especially since they had older women in the group that were trained to introduce sex to the young boys. (I'm NOT making this up)

(If you meant Cambridge MA, Burlington already went there in the late 1970s. UVM brought in a lot of kids from the area and businesses picked up on the fact.)

"Incentives for suburbanization"... love it.
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Old 05-03-2012, 04:07 PM
 
Location: The Woods
16,955 posts, read 22,268,498 times
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I've made nails before, but I doubt most have. Most people in Burlington drive a ways to get their nails from the blacksmith in Warner's Grant, and their paint from the big box stores in Lewis and Averill. They have to smuggle them in because the code enforcers in Burlington only allow certain colors in order to make it look like suburban New Jersey. They're also requiring a certain number of gangs move in as well. Gotta have that certain feel to the place. The big thing in the Lake is Champing. Think Captain Ahab meets the lake monsters.
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Old 05-03-2012, 07:02 PM
 
Location: in a cabin overlooking the mountains
3,079 posts, read 3,721,503 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mdovell View Post
1) Outside of these two towns/cities the place was very rural. I could drive for miles upon miles of rural farm land and just open space. There is so much open space I have to ask does the state own it? I know it might sounds a tad odd but if more towns were developed then the drive might not seem as long. Maybe the state could make some incentives for rural development into suburban
Why in the world should the rural areas be developed? Who is supposed to live there?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mdovell View Post
2) Most of the houses I saw in Burlington looked immaculate, at least from the outside. Is there some local code for this because I don't know if other areas would look as good unless it was enforced. Also supply stores for upkeep? I didn't see a home depot or lowes, just a few hardware stores. Do people horde or make their own paint/nails etc.
Burlington is a haven for the few people in the state who have money, namely trust fund babies and the chosen few who earn a decent living. And Home Depot sells overpriced crap. Lowes is a chain building supply store that also sells overpriced crap but which is poorly managed on the national level. If you come to northern New England, you'd be well-advised to purchase your building supplies from one of the small local chains.
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Old 05-04-2012, 04:48 AM
 
Location: Florida
198 posts, read 382,101 times
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Wow! A day and a half and you want to change everything about Vt to make it like your own state. Why does everyone from out of state want to come to VT because they love it so much and then want to change it? BTW, I am surprised you did not complain about the lack of billboards while you were at it.
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Old 05-04-2012, 06:04 AM
 
48 posts, read 91,704 times
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Originally Posted by vtallison View Post
Wow! A day and a half and you want to change everything about Vt to make it like your own state. Why does everyone from out of state want to come to VT because they love it so much and then want to change it? BTW, I am surprised you did not complain about the lack of billboards while you were at it.
I can see this thread disappearing because it's pretty worthless. But there's change and then there's change. I moved somewhere several years ago where some of the neighbors let the dogs and cats run loose all over everybody else's property. They said they had always done that and had the right to do so despite laws saying they couldn't. In some cases it was even to the extent that you couldn't walk down their street for exercise without getting harrassed by a mean dog rushing out into the road. Of course, they claimed you didn't have any business being on their street either. Those folks needed change. And I gave them some.

On the other hand, claiming you need houses all over the place, this store, that store, and your favoritine restaurant that's missing, that's change too. But it's the kind of change you need to go looking for elsewhere.
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Old 05-04-2012, 07:55 AM
 
Location: Florida
198 posts, read 382,101 times
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I am not talking about leash laws in the suburban areas or those that affect safety. I am responding to the OP who wants to suburbanize the open spaces that we love, who obviously has to have a big box store every 10 miles instead of supporting local business, who wants his shorter commute because there is too much open space and farmland, who is actually complaining about every house being immaculate (insinuating that there must be a code instead of people who take pride in their homes all by themselves), who does not understand our northern climate and that everything does not turn green on April 1st, who cannot google "activities on lake Champlain" by himself, and who most certainly should not ever be in a town or city political position in this state because he wants to change the essence that is Vermont.
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Old 05-04-2012, 09:15 AM
 
48 posts, read 91,704 times
Reputation: 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by vtallison View Post
I am not talking about leash laws in the suburban areas or those that affect safety. I am responding to the OP who wants to suburbanize the open spaces that we love, who obviously has to have a big box store every 10 miles instead of supporting local business, who wants his shorter commute because there is too much open space and farmland, who is actually complaining about every house being immaculate (insinuating that there must be a code instead of people who take pride in their homes all by themselves), who does not understand our northern climate and that everything does not turn green on April 1st, who cannot google "activities on lake Champlain" by himself, and who most certainly should not ever be in a town or city political position in this state because he wants to change the essence that is Vermont.
Hopefully you realize that I mainly agree with you, especially on the growth issues. I merely pointed out the innuendos of change. If you read these forums you will repeatedly stumble onto the issue of people complaining about "outsiders" showing up and demanding change or worse - actually changing things. I guess you could sum it up as turning a place into where they just came from. I simply pointed out sometimes change is really needed.

I've been reading the stuff about lawns full of junk and the complaints about it with great amusement. When all is said and done don't these people have a right to do that as long as they're not violating a law or ordinance? It's part of their freedoms and rights as Americans, right?

I have relatives in the same predictament. They moved way out in the country so they could have some goats, chickens, and junk. Yes, junk. All over the yard. Old generators, boat motors, heavy equipment etc. Their property is zoned agricultural too. Then the housing boom came along and they got surrounded by pricey homes. And I mean virtually encircled. And all these new neighbors dislike their junk. They even walk up to them at the fence line and say things like "I think you should get rid of that or clean that up."

And they usually get a response such as "I've been thinking about starting a pig farm on your side of the property."
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