[Cackalassie]

Hey folks,

My husband I are planning to flee the mess in NC (specifically politics and the blight of land consumption). We're looking at Middlebury, Montpelier, and St Johnsbury. We've visited all three in the past, though not as a potential place to live, as we were wearing our rose-colored tourist glasses. My husband has a job and can telecommute from anywhere. I'm thinking we'd be okay up your way financially, at least when I've run the numbers we are - he makes $100K and I don't work. We want up there what we have down here and is being encroached upon by "progress" - a small farm, but the way it used to be. That way of life is long gone, even in the nooks and crannies of the deepest mountains.

Thing is, I'm Southern. I wouldn't normally have considered that a big deal, except for the shock of the winter season, but in reading past threads, I was floored to learn that Southerners have a reputation of being fake. Seriously, that was news to me. I'm from a rednecky, farming family in the NC mountains, and the NEK is right up my alley. Junk and plunder on the front porch is part of the scenery down in these parts. I've got an accent, and I say funny things that even folks down in the NC lowlands scratch their heads about. So while I might think I fit in just fine in the NEK, I've gotten the message on the forums that a big-time NYC urbanite might be more welcome than the likes of me? Is that accurate? If I were single it'd be one thing, but I've got kids, and I want them to fit in and find the Vermont love. I tend to jabber, flirt with babies and old men, and sometimes touch strangers for emphasis when talking. I don't even think about it. But if that's going to alienate my family, I need to find somewhere else to put down roots.

We're liberal, certainly crunchy by NC standards, secular homeschoolers, who like to do a lot of outdoor sports, specifically xc-skiing, fishing, and sculling. We're looking for a super-solid community of friends and neighbors. I know that comes with time, I'm from the mountains, after all.

Any clarity on the Southern issue would be appreciated, or any other moving thoughts. Had no idea folks felt hostility for Southerners. I just thought it was a German/Italian, Labrador/Shepherd sort of thing. One is friendly and boisterous, and the other more stoic and reserved.

Thanks a bunch!

[FrugalYankee]

Hostility for southerners? That's a new one on me! I always felt a little sad stopping in stores in the south and seeing bumper stickers for sale that say "Why is the South So Windy... Cuz the North ****s "

Parts of northern New England can get as rednecky as in the south, you just have to be picture it with cold, snow and ice. Think snowmobiles instead of four-wheelers and ice fishing. There are plenty of folks who have yard trash on their property. You probably want to stay away from Middlebury and Montpelier and stick to where the 'chucks live. Transplants don't seem to appreciate it when 'chucks have "stuff" in their yard. No way a gal from the mountains further south would be more welcome than someone from NYC.

New Englanders are NOT touchy feely, so touching strangers will likely get you a startled look. It will take time to make true friends but if you are willing to join in with community activities you'll easily find folks with interests similar to yours. And there is nothing like having kids to help make friends.

Don't be surprised by the "Yankees ****" bumper stickers you see up here. We mean the ball team, not the people from up nawth.

[jackmccullough]

I'm aware of a sentiment that Southerners are fake based on the idea that they will pretend to be polite and pleasant to people they can't stand, all the while undermining them socially behind their backs. I don't know if the stereotype is true; I suspect a Southerner would say that if it happens it's just a matter of getting along with people even when you don't like them, and there is a value to that. I don't have any reason to think it's any more prevalent in Vermont than anyplace else.

Lots of people (almost half) who live up here weren't born here, which makes it even harder to generalize about what people in Vermont are like. There is a strain of xenophobia (for example, I remember the letter to the editor referring to a former governor as a "flatlander"; her name was Madeleine Kunin and she comes from a very flat place known as Switzerland), but if you're friendly and willingly enter into your community many people will accept you.

It's a little trickier to be sure exactly where you'll be comfortable. The places you mention, especially Middlebury and Montpelier, are more liberal and potential more in line with your values. You might also fit in in some of the smaller towns in Central Vermont or Addison County. On the other hand, the availability of a small farm and people who don't object to junk in your yard and on your porch are more likely to be found in the Northeast Kingdom, which is the nickname for the three northeasternmost counties in the state; it's also the most conservative part of the state and you might have trouble with broadband access in some places.

I've only lived in Vermont since 1983, having come from a much larger city, but I haven't felt excluded or unwelcome. The economy is a challenge, but since your husband would be coming with a job that's less of a problem. You absolutely can live on $100,000 a year here.

[Cackalassie]

Ha! Sorry, should have clarified - I don't have junk in MY yard, just don't judge folks who do. Maybe I went back too far into the threads, there was a fair bit of talk about the NEK looking depressed and junky - am guessing those folks were transplants? - and fake southerners, which, yep, I got a few thoughts about that. I'm tenacious, so can wait out people warming to me. But there were two particularly fussy threads about the hypocritical South that made me pause. Yes, reliable internet will determine where we land.

Might anyone be able to recommend a good primitive skills school or kids rowing clubs/school? I know only of the COC.

Much appreciated!

[FrugalYankee]

A LOT of Vermont looks depressed and junky. Those homes could belong to the 'chucks or to the transplants who come up here for the welfare.

[harry chickpea]

"We want up there what we have down here and is being encroached upon by "progress" - a small farm, but the way it used to be." "We're liberal, certainly crunchy by NC standards, secular homeschoolers"

Therein lies your dilemma. Those two don't generally fit well together. Add that small farms are not economically viable anymore and it gets more challenging. The rules and regulations that come with land ownership in Vermont are going to tear at you. OTOH, the small farm idea is much more feasible around where we live, but at the cost of living in a very red area.

If you want Vermont the way it USED to be, make a ring on a map about 50 miles out from Huntsville (no closer than that) and look there, especially in AL.

Southerners are not looked upon with disdain in Vermont. False and overly emotive showboating is.

[Cackalassie]

Pretty sure, given I'm from the backwoods, that Vermont's junky and depressed isn't going to surprise me. My neighbors and family are super red and religious, I don't need to live in a bubble of like-minded folk, just good people. I get the sense from the forum that transplants have found a lot of those up there. We've got 'em down here, too, but a whole lot of other *** in politics and zoning. I think my definition of farm is much smaller scale than what y'all call one up there, I just mean some acreage 15+ for our family and animals, not producing anything beyond our needs.

The Huntsville area is lovely, I know AL well, but that'd be jumping from the pot into the fire for me. I suspect that what Vermont is now is what NC was 30yrs ago, and that's good enough for me. Seems like Vermonters have more common sense and foresight than we've got down here, or maybe we're just greedier.

Hmm. I'm no showboater but I am southern, I emote. A lot. On my trips up there I did notice that people sort of looked at me like I had a monkey on my head. I figured it was my hillbilly accent, but maybe it was more cultural.

Thanks again, folks!

[Mtneer12]

You can't be from NC. You're too literate.

[joe moving]

Are you going to continue home schooling?

Either way, I would check out the mad river valley, basicallysmack in between middlebury and montpelier. Waitsfield, Warren, Fayston, Moretown.

at least around here, I don't have the idea that people here have any predisposition to southerners.

[Cackalassie]

Yes, we will still homeschool. Thanks for the MRV suggestions, will take a peek at those.

Don't be so sure Mtneer, your Yankee folk get a little antsy when they hear me speak, fearing I'll go all Deliverance on them or fry them for vittles.