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Old 03-22-2013, 07:49 AM
 
3,550 posts, read 6,491,825 times
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when somebody says 'hipster' I always picture some long haired beatnik playing bongo drums in dupont circle
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Old 03-22-2013, 08:32 AM
 
465 posts, read 928,593 times
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Good lord, Bluefly. You demolished him.

Quote:
The only solution is for massive federal, state and local government intervention in the housing markets where either developers are fully subsidized to build housing OR the government must purchase, build and rent out space to middle class income earners
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Old 03-22-2013, 09:47 AM
 
999 posts, read 2,011,853 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluefly View Post
His solution in his rebuttal is to generate more such activity to generate more opportunities for others to engage and have more revenue to support a solid social net and subsidized housing market, which is what you want.
Really? So since the year 2000, when the city was starting to be transformed by the creative class, have we seen a significant increase in spending for DC's poor families? Have we seen a notable increase in local funding for housing subsidies? Have we seen much in the way of new public housing developments in The District? Have we seen greater spending on public schools in less affluent Wards?

Did it ever occur to you that the DC government is earmarking more budget items to attract and to maintain a lifestyle for the professional creative class? Who has the straw to stir the drink?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluefly View Post
The failure of your core argument, as always, is you never address who's going to pay for it.
Ah, when I call for government intervention, this usually means higher taxes for you, me and everyone else. Especially those who belong to the professional creative class. They will pay a higher rate. Corporations located in a local jurisdiction should be coughing up more tax payments. No mystery here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluefly View Post
A city full of poor people trying to support other poor people doesn't work. Having all the wealthier people live in separate municipal suburbs like Bethesda or Silver Spring or McLean while the poor are concentrated in another jurisdiction doesn't allow for the municipal tax distribution you seek.
Here's another way of looking at things. DC government acts in concert with real estate developers, business leaders, landlord property owners and the police department to push the working poor out of The District. The problem of the poor gets dumped onto a neighboring jurisdiction like Prince Georges County. Gang violence, unemployed adults, low-wage workers, high school dropouts, teenage pregnancies: all of that starts flowing eastward across the DC/PG border. I am sure the PG County government officials and local law enforcement really appreciate this forced migration instituted by the DC Mayor's office and the real estate cronies.

So now, we have a situation where the PG County budget is stretched even further because of the social problems associated with the poor. What was once DC's financial burden has now been dumped onto PG County. Thanks Mayor Williams, Mayor Fenty and Mayor Gray!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluefly View Post
We don't have a state here but, if we did, forcing all the economic activity (because it has to be somewhere) into far flung areas in order to support poor people living in crumbling central infrastructure far from jobs and retail is inefficient for both federal and state redistribution because, again, more economic activity to fund public housing is generated by creating vibrant cities.
Complete BS response on your part. I never advocated having poor people concentrated in urban cores and completely excluding wealthier citizens from participating in the city's economy. I firmly believe in residential integration regardless of socio-economic class status. The creative class and blue-collar class should help grow a city together. Together!

Just answer this question: Should the middle-class and working class people have the same opportunity to live in communities with close access to public transportation, grocery stores and bicycle lanes as enjoyed by the creative class? It's a simple yes or no answer.

The working poor are being forced farther away from jobs, farther away from public transportation BECAUSE OF GENTRIFICATION! The greater density, walkable urbanism is too expensive for people with modest incomes. Why is that?

And again, do you have proof that cities with an emerging creative class allocate more funding to public and subsidized housing?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluefly View Post
But, if you do care enough to engage in conversations about complex issues rather than just distributing disproven rants, you should at least know that you're not nearly the champion of the poor that you like to think you are.
And you are not the champion of reason, logic or nuanced thought either. You peddle your ideology just like any other schmuk in a taxi cab or drinking bar.
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Old 03-22-2013, 10:22 AM
 
Location: USA
8,011 posts, read 11,407,485 times
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wow. the hipster bubble will burst without lower income people's extra money.
they said all this development for gentrification is subsidized anyway. wow again.
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Old 03-22-2013, 10:44 AM
 
3,307 posts, read 9,384,153 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coldbliss View Post
Really? So since the year 2000, when the city was starting to be transformed by the creative class, have we seen a significant increase in spending for DC's poor families? Have we seen a notable increase in local funding for housing subsidies? Have we seen much in the way of new public housing developments in The District? Have we seen greater spending on public schools in less affluent Wards?

Did it ever occur to you that the DC government is earmarking more budget items to attract and to maintain a lifestyle for the professional creative class? Who has the straw to stir the drink?


Ah, when I call for government intervention, this usually means higher taxes for you, me and everyone else. Especially those who belong to the professional creative class. They will pay a higher rate. Corporations located in a local jurisdiction should be coughing up more tax payments. No mystery here.
Raise taxes and start ignoring the "creative class", and the "creative class" will just take up residence elsewhere.

End result- DC has the same number of poor people and fewer resources to support them.
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Old 03-22-2013, 12:15 PM
 
Location: Shaw.
2,226 posts, read 3,858,212 times
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Why does there seem to be an assumption in this thread that "creative class" = "hipsters"?
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Old 03-22-2013, 12:22 PM
 
Location: Washington, DC
2,010 posts, read 3,460,046 times
Reputation: 1375
Quote:
Originally Posted by pgm123 View Post
Why does there seem to be an assumption in this thread that "creative class" = "hipsters"?
Because "gentrification/bike lanes/change/et al = hipsters". It has become a ubiquitous term on this forum.
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Old 03-22-2013, 12:42 PM
 
999 posts, read 2,011,853 times
Reputation: 1200
So we should allow public schools to fail and streets to be riddled with pot holes because the urban professionals cannot handle a tax increase?

Quote:
Originally Posted by pcity View Post
Raise taxes and start ignoring the "creative class", and the "creative class" will just take up residence elsewhere.

End result- DC has the same number of poor people and fewer resources to support them.
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Old 03-22-2013, 01:50 PM
 
Location: USA
8,011 posts, read 11,407,485 times
Reputation: 3454
it won't really matter since the city will be bankrupt with or without them.
creating more inequality does not make a city any better off than it was
before.
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Old 03-22-2013, 02:50 PM
 
465 posts, read 928,593 times
Reputation: 285
Quote:
So we should allow public schools to fail and streets to be riddled with pot holes because the urban professionals cannot handle a tax increase?
California has the highest tax rates in the entire country and the state is falling apart. DC already has very high tax rates on income, especially compared to VA. You realize that people do adjust their behaviour according to tax policy, right?

The last thing the middle class in DC needs is more taxes. Freaking statists, I swear. If you think the reason DC schools suck is because they don't get enough money (DC spends one of the highest $$ per capita on education), you need a headcheck.
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