Washington State VS Colorado ??? (Seattle, Spokane: loans, house, job market)

[Simmers]

Hello All, I was wondering if anyone could be willing to give me the differences between Washington State and Colorado? I've been to Colorado (visiting) but not Washington and was wondering, besides the weather... what it's like as far as the atmosphere with living, how the people are, job market and communities, activities (what people are into), age groups in different places, etc. Has anyone been to or lived at both Washington State and Colorado who can tell me a little about it and what the pros and cons are? We are researching Colorado and targeting that state but on the other side, but we took a test on ****.com and a lot of towns in both Colorado as well as Washington came up. Thanks a bunch for any input on this!

[StealthRabbit]

I've done 25 yrs in each
Loveland, / Masonville / Estes Park Co (NE)

and Vancouver / West Columbia Gorge WA (SW)

really depends alot on what you are looking for. (Work, culture, recreation, weather)

I find WA is not as friendly, and most of our good friends are still from Colo, but that really is specific to areas, as WA home is pretty 'Urban' county (commuters to PDX) and the rural parts have been loggers (independant) Colo was more agrarian, (which I prefer, more socialble, help each other)

interesting that 70% of our neighbors in WA have unlisted phone numbers, I tribute this to the fact this area was settled by folks wanting to 'get away', but I note that certain social studies target the PNW as being 'anti-social'. Kinda like the church statistics ~3-5% churched in PNW where Colo is likely closer to 30-50%.

WA - ***
is really 2 different states (east side / farms and dry and conservative) West is liberal, green, timber and Starbucks (and controls all the voting, same as OR)
no state income tax, ok if you have income (I'm recently retired, (laid-off) and am forced to leave WA due to property tax burden) Tough taxation for an independent businessman also. (I'm also tired of 'leaky cars, rusty tools and electrical issues due to moisture', we had 24" rain in Nov and 12" in Dec, that's adequate...) It has snowed 4 times, tho not much, but 3 days of freezing rain and 70 mph winds just last week. It's been an 'extreme' water yr already, started in Oct...
Recreation is pretty good, and you can still 'get away' without crowds.
weather, you can choose from the gamit, Spokane is quite similar to Colo, but cloudier in winter and warmer in summer.
Culture is good and diverse (you don't have to go to Denver (or Portland or Seattle for everything)
Lots to see and do (sea kayaking to snow skiing all within 1 hr (if on west side)) But, the rain can get some folks down, and some need to use 'light therapy' in winter. Basically you need to exercise and endure / enjoy it. It really wears me down, having been a prairie boy, and often having to work on my WA farm in the rain (prune, plow and plant...) + building homes and structures, you just have to get wet and do-it, don't wait for a clear day (June) I dislike only having 80-100 days of sun to get outdoor stuff built, bulldozed, fixed, improved... and end up missing those as precious days of recreation,

so... don't be a driven farmer and live 'westside' (you also have a very tenuos crop production... mold, frost, ... (but not hail, like Colo ) Having 'elective hobbies' outside vs. 'mandantory work tasks' could make living w/ 285 days of rain a whole lot different, my wife thinks it's great (she sews and reads...)

WA schools (k-12) are good on the Islands (san Juan) and in Pullman , Lynden and along Lake WA $$$, pretty crummy elsewhere, the state statistics are available and very telling, you need to be selective, or better yet - be involved!! We homeschooled thru grade 10, then kids did 'community college' (for free jr and sr yrs WA 'Running Start Program') both graduated from state U's with only 2 years of loans

Colo ****
is really nice, can be mild in areas (not this week...very rare blizzard, I rode my bike to work all but 3 days my last yr in Colorado) Biking is MUCH better - snow shoulders on roads, legal use of right lane to bikes, people give you space (definately not that way in WA ) lots to see, not so much to do... hiking vistas are much more scenic (fewer trees in the way) Stars are great. Beach is A LONG ways away...

It's really getting too crowded and expensive and available water might become a BIG(-ger) issue, especially if / when we(USA) has a food crisis... The Denver airport is in Kansas (I like to travel internationally, so Portland and Seattle are (were) great hubs)
Pollution is a problem on eastern slope (front range)
Schools are probably better, tho not necessarily

Give me some more ideas what you're looking for (jobs, family, recreation, businesses, school)

FYI, the last 'total state tax burden' info I got put WA at #7 (expensive) and Colo #26. Again not too important if you are an 'employee', but if a business owner or farmer, or retired, it is VERY important. Wyoming on the other hand,,, very cheap taxes, great schools (generally) but having growing pains, and is really windy ! and cold too, short on trees also (that is a concern for my wife... )

[Simmers]

Thanks for the great info.! This helps a lot! WA and CO both sound like great places to live. On your post you mentioned "could make living w/ 285 days of rain a whole lot different". So it rains that much huh? From the description, I think the East side would be more for us. It would be nice if the people are friendly, we are friendly but are pretty much to ourselves too. As far as activities, we enjoy camping, hiking, being outdoors and even hunting. I guess what would be ideal for us would be to live in a town with less thank 100K people, a small town feel yet not having to commute too far for work (meaning over 45 min), home with at leas 1/2acre, green/trees, having a career there (our experience is - for him: logistics, law enforcement, testing facility test director, mine is: I.T. or banking/loans., we don't have kids yet, home range preferrably 300K or less. As far as weather, I know it is cold in Washington, I just wondered how cold it is most of the time and if Colorado is better weather wise in comparison to that. We are used to Arizona weather but wouldn't mind some rain or snow. Just don't know if we would like it year round. Thanks again for your help, it is greatly appreciated! Merry Christmas!!!

[RodFarlee]

Originally Posted by Simmers

On your post you mentioned "could make living w/ 285 days of rain a whole lot different". So it rains that much huh? ...
As far as weather, I know it is cold in Washington, I just wondered how cold it is most of the time and if Colorado is better weather wise in comparison to that.

No place in Washington gets "285 days of rain a year"! Shoot, even the Hoh rain forest on the Olympic coast gets rain only 190 days! And WA is not colder than CO.

Here are actual averages for the last 70+ years from the Western Regional Climate Center. I'm choosing two nice cities in WA that might meet your criteria, Simmers, and a couple in CO for comparison.

Vancouver (western WA)
rainfall over 0.01" 149 days, over 0.1" 99 days per year
rainfall average 45" per year
snowfall average 6.6" per year
average January hi 45, low 32 F
average July hi 79, low 54 F

Wenatchee (eastern WA)
rainfall over 0.01" 65 days, over 0.1" 28 days per year
rainfall average 9" per year
snowfall average 27" per year
average January hi 35, low 22 F
average July hi 88, low 60 F

Denver CO
rainfall over 0.01" 78 days, over 0.1" 33 days per year
rainfall average 13" per year
snowfall average 54" per year
average January hi 44, low 22 F
average July hi 86, low 62 F

Durango CO
rainfall over 0.01" 87 days, over 0.1" 49 days per year
rainfall average 19" per year
snowfall average 69" per year
average January hi 49, low 10 F
average July hi 85, low 50 F

WA has a milder climate than CO, almost no thunderstorms, much less snow, and more consistant temperatures without the rapid swings and extremes of hot and cold that CO gets. But WA has fewer sunny days in winter than CO.

[cdelena]

Originally Posted by janb

...
FYI, the last 'total state tax burden' info I got put WA at #7 (expensive) and Colo #26. Again not too important if you are an 'employee', but if a business owner or farmer, or retired, it is VERY important.
...

Be very careful comparing 'total tax burden' because it has to be estimated on a 'test case'. I have seen many instances where individual circumstances (property, income, expenses, etc.) are so different that one would be in the highest quarter of taxes in the country and another in the lowest. I suggest mapping your own tax burden in both places.

[StealthRabbit]

Originally Posted by RodFarlee

No place in Washington gets "285 days of rain a year"! Shoot, even the Hoh rain forest on the Olympic coast gets rain only 190 days! And WA is not colder than CO.

Here are actual averages for the last 70+ years from the Western Regional Climate Center. I'm choosing two nice cities in WA that might meet your criteria, Simmers, and a couple in CO for comparison.

Vancouver (western WA)
rainfall over 0.01" 149 days, over 0.1" 99 days per year
rainfall average 45" per year
snowfall average 6.6" per year
average January hi 45, low 32 F
average July hi 79, low 54 F
.. But WA has fewer sunny days in winter than CO.

sorry, my info was from an article in the Oregonian that compared Seattle and Portland, and stated that PDX was 285 days with 'some' precipitation, and SEA was 284 days with 'some' preciptation, (or it actually might have (probably) been days with no sun) Their test data dates, I don't remember. We do get a nice dry spell in the summer, (~60 days) but plants are shallow rooted, so brown within 3 wks unless watered

BTW, we are considered a Vancouver location, but statistically get 90-110" rain / yr, due to the fact we are at a higher / eastern elevation that 'wrings' out the water before the storms head over the Cascades. Our fruit farm in North Vancouver got ~65" / yr. As a 'master gardener', I keep my 'soils and rainfall reports' at hand and there are a few areas in Clark Couty (Vancouver) that get over 100" / yr, such as Yacolt, near Mt St Helen's, so investigate where you might want to 'light' in a specific county. Generally, even if it isn't raining it will be gray and cloudy, but we don't get 'fog' like the Willamette valley south of PDX, I have a friend who moved there from CO, and it was a really hard transition on their family, they only lasted 2 yrs. Our Colo. company sent folks to Corvallis, Vancouver, Lake Stevens, and Spokane. The retention rate was only good in Spokane.

regarding the days of rain issue... of course it just 'drizzles', which takes alot of days to get 100", tho we got 24" just in Nov and looks to be @ 12" in Dec (rare, but... it happens)

cdelena - thanks for tax suggestion, I am working on a spreadsheet that will calculate 'scenerios' based on data from locations, Any suggestions on where I can get specific info, short of contacting counties individually. Ours has over 2000 seperate property 'tax structures', depending on the mix of school, fie, library, EMS, water, sewer district; so says the assessor. he requires a specific address. This gets laborious on a slow modem / paying by the minute...(no HS in my zone)

I will just benchmark data with a minimal income, and estimated expenses / home value, and grocery / energy budget. Of course I also have to figure my chances / costs of getting waste vegetable oil for my bio-Diesel needs.

[WazzuCoop21]

WA is not landlocked. Anything you get in CO, you can get in WA. Awesome outdoor activities, mountains, forests, desert, etc. WA is much more diverse geographically, plus you can't get the ocean in CO. Honestly, I was just at the Keystone resort outside of Denver this August and I think the Rockies are overrated. While it was pretty there, I was expecting more. The Cascades are the most beautiful mountains in the US, hands down. I've seen them all and I'm still partial to the Cascades. The scenic route around Mt. Rainier is one of the most beautiful drives you would ever take. Just my 2 cents.

[RodFarlee]

Originally Posted by janb

sorry, my info was from an article in the Oregonian that compared Seattle and Portland, and stated that PDX was 285 days with 'some' precipitation, and SEA was 284 days with 'some' preciptation, (or it actually might have (probably) been days with no sun)...

No, but 284 days of cloudy or partially cloudy (4/10 cloud cover or more) is correct.
But about half of those days are pretty nice (partly sunny, and no rain).

[rosanielle]

Have never been to Washington but I'm looking at it for a future retirement place because it does seem to offer the things I love about CO but with the added bonus of the ocean. Colorado has been good to us. The job market is good in Denver but sketchy in the more rural areas, like any other state. Land, housing, and gasoline all tend to be higher than most of the country. The weather is neither too hot or too cold. If I ever moved from here, the things I'd miss the most would be elk watching in the fall (when they're in rut), being in the mountains above treeline, and eating at some mighty fine Mexican restaurants. The things I wouldn't miss are Denver's pollution and traffic, and how jealous so many Coloradoans are of another state's attributes. It's like only Colorado is blessed with beauty....and we all know that's not true.

[RodFarlee]

Originally Posted by rosanielle

If I ever moved from [Colorado to WA], the things I'd miss the most would be elk watching in the fall (when they're in rut), being in the mountains above treeline, and eating at some mighty fine Mexican restaurants.

If you do move from CO to WA, you should see elk. Elk outnumber deer in some parts of the Olympics and Cascades.
A resident herd of 80 elk live within a 1.5 mile radius of my house (NW of Sequim WA). But I am a bit cautious of the males during fall rut, and of the females during spring calving, seasons. They can be unpredictable then, and I do cross paths with them most every week.
We also have alpine treeline within sight, 20 miles, or 1 hour by car. It's only at 6000', but because it's cooler here, the feet of glaciers are at about that elevation, too. We only have one 14er, but our mountains in general are actually taller, because their bases are at sea level!
Mexican restaurants... well, we sure do have... ok, no, we just can't compete! Let's talk seafood!