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Old 07-10-2007, 08:04 PM
 
391 posts, read 976,939 times
Reputation: 162
Quote:
Originally Posted by INeedAChange View Post
I'm not sure I agree with that--I was just there a few days ago and I found it quite bearable. In fact it's worse here now than it was there -- it hit close to 100 degrees today. Summers in the US are basically bad everywhere except for a few places in the far north, and the Pacific NW.
That's true. Summers are generally hot everywhere except San Francisco.

Were you here for only a few days? I could tolerate FL summer a lot more if it were just as fleeting as our winter; or even if cooled down a bit at night and into daybreak.
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Old 07-12-2007, 05:15 AM
 
2,357 posts, read 134,937 times
Reputation: 864
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben Around View Post
What?? Have you ever been to Miami in the summer?
Yes, I have. Have you been to Columbia or Austin in the summer?

Quote:
Or are you just relying on statistics?
Of course, what else are you going to do? You've got people here saying that Iowa is the hottest part of the country. I'm sure somebody out there thinks that Maine gets really really hot. You've gotta have some objective measure.
If we were talking 1 or 2 degrees of difference, I'd see where you're coming from. But in the peak months, Miami is almost 10 degrees cooler than some of those other places, and has similar humidity. I'll give it to you that Miami might be hotter in October, or November, etc.

If you can find a place to get average historical heat index, that would be better than temperature. I just don't know where that data is.

Quote:
Yes, there are breezes near the ocean, but most people there don't live on the beach.
It's not about the breezes, it's about the change in climate that occurs near the ocean. It can affect miles inland, not just "on the beach". The Atlantic makes things much, much more pleasant. Warmer in the winter, cooler in the summer.


Quote:
And the temperatures are deceiving. 85 in Miami when the dew point if 75 (which is often, in the summer) is mcuh more miserable than 90 in Des Moines when the dew point is 50. The relentless nature of the heat and humidity is another dimension you are overlooking.
Miami is no more humid than the other 'hot' places I named. You are correct that Miami doesn't cool off much at night, but so what? 80-85 degrees at night isn't bad.


Quote:
It is *always* hot and muggy in Miami in the summer. In northern cities, and some southern ones, I'd guess, you get cooler days interspersed with hotter ones, and on many 80 and 90+ days, the evening temps cool off to the 60s.
Yes, exactly.. you'd guess. It is always hot and muggy in New Orleans in the summer. It is always hot and muggy in Houston in the summer. It is always hot and muggy in Columbia in the summer.. etc. etc.

Last edited by anonymous; 07-12-2007 at 05:31 AM..
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Old 07-12-2007, 09:27 AM
 
Location: Austin, TX
1,231 posts, read 2,564,114 times
Reputation: 365
Quote:
Originally Posted by INeedAChange View Post
It's probably good that not everyone likes the same thing or everyone would be crowded into a the same area of the country!
Absolutely true! Imagine if everyone wanted to marry the same woman or man. Our varied preferences and needs help keep the world functioning, so we're not forming armies to battle for control of territory on the Southern California Coast (which is assumed by many statistically-oriented people to be the "ideal climate" though I find it treacherously dull and way too dry.)
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymous View Post
You've got people here saying that Iowa is the hottest part of the country. I'm sure somebody out there thinks that Maine gets really really hot. You've gotta have some objective measure.
Objective measures are important but they aren't reality. What we experience subjectively is our reality. It doesn't matter what some book or list of stats says about weather, it matters how you feel in that weather.

I understand the Iowa comments. The highest heat indices in the nation are often generated in the corn fields of eastern Nebraska, Iowa, and other nearby locations because of the spells of extreme heat with dewpoints in the low 80s. That's worse than anything you'll ever experience in Miami or Texas.

HOWEVER, on AVERAGE a summer day in Iowa is more comfortable than the same day in Texas. People notice the extremes and that helps them form opinions about weather more than averages do. When a climate is less variable, people tend to adapt. If you're in Chicago enjoying breezy 80 degree days in July and then get slammed with a heat wave characterized by hazy skies, high humidity, no wind, no clouds, and temps in the 90s, then you notice it a lot more than you would in Texas where it doesn't represent such a dramatic departure from "normal."

So I think everyone is right. The stats are useful, but subjective experience is also important. And the fact is that coastal Maine has reached all-time high temperatures over 100, whereas Miami has NO record of EVER achieving triple-digits! Sure, anomalies don't tell you what it's like normally, but averages hide a lot of information about a place.
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Old 07-12-2007, 10:23 AM
 
2,357 posts, read 134,937 times
Reputation: 864
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheHarvester View Post
Objective measures are important but they aren't reality. What we experience subjectively is our reality. It doesn't matter what some book or list of stats says about weather, it matters how you feel in that weather.
Yes, I agree that weather and pleasantness is subjective. And while there is no universally agreed upon scale, I think heat index covers things well enough. The fact that some people think that 95 degrees and 65% humidity is more pleasant than 82 degrees with 20% humidity is, to me, not a factor in a casual discussion.

Quote:
I understand the Iowa comments. The highest heat indices in the nation are often generated in the corn fields of eastern Nebraska, Iowa, and other nearby locations because of the spells of extreme heat with dewpoints in the low 80s. That's worse than anything you'll ever experience in Miami or Texas.
I understand the Iowa comments too, but why would you measure the heat index in the middle of a cornfield? You might as well measure the temperature of the inside of someone's oven, because it isn't consistent, and only occurs in one spot.

For example, a small part of my job involves running a weather station. The station sits about 15' high, in the grass outside my office. Yesterday, we saw the heat index fluctuate between 105 and 110 throughout midday. However, to be 'accurate', temperature must be taken in the shade. Weather.com said the heat index was around 95, because they are in the shade. Same principle as that cornfield.

Quote:
HOWEVER, on AVERAGE a summer day in Iowa is more comfortable than the same day in Texas. People notice the extremes and that helps them form opinions about weather more than averages do. When a climate is less variable, people tend to adapt. If you're in Chicago enjoying breezy 80 degree days in July and then get slammed with a heat wave characterized by hazy skies, high humidity, no wind, no clouds, and temps in the 90s, then you notice it a lot more than you would in Texas where it doesn't represent such a dramatic departure from "normal."
If you want to consider people's acclimation to weather combined with the weather's temperature variability, then that only furthers my point that Miami is pleasant in the summer.

Quote:
So I think everyone is right. The stats are useful, but subjective experience is also important. And the fact is that coastal Maine has reached all-time high temperatures over 100, whereas Miami has NO record of EVER achieving triple-digits! Sure, anomalies don't tell you what it's like normally, but averages hide a lot of information about a place.
So you're saying that since we can't perfectly measure comfort, therefore, everyone's opinion is correct. I don't agree with that, I have more confidence in meteorology.

Last edited by anonymous; 07-12-2007 at 10:40 AM..
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Old 07-12-2007, 11:29 AM
 
Location: Heartland Florida
8,315 posts, read 15,786,024 times
Reputation: 3807
I want to see someone sleep when it's 85 outside WITHOUT AIR CONDITIONING!
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Old 07-12-2007, 12:08 PM
 
1,703 posts, read 3,636,237 times
Reputation: 536
Is there such a thing as unpleasant summer weather?

Now winter would be a different story.
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Old 07-12-2007, 03:33 PM
 
Location: Deep In The Heat Of Texas
2,640 posts, read 122,847 times
Reputation: 700
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fishtacos View Post
Is there such a thing as unpleasant summer weather?

Now winter would be a different story.

That's an easy question and the answer is, "Yes, most definitely."
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Old 07-12-2007, 03:38 PM
 
Location: AZ
18,850 posts, read 49,263,556 times
Reputation: 7658
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fishtacos View Post
Is there such a thing as unpleasant summer weather?
Here, let my pictures do the talking....

Northern Arizona (June 15th):


I let the thermometer sit in direct sun for only 10 minutes for this shot! In the shade was registering 112 degrees:


Heres a hint: we NEVER lit this candle. The sun did this in 2 days.



So the answer to your question is, YES, summer weather is very unpleasant in certain areas of the country.
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Old 07-12-2007, 03:49 PM
 
Location: Anywhere but here!
2,796 posts, read 6,603,439 times
Reputation: 1623
Bullhead City, Arizona! 120's in the summertime! We usually have low humidity until end of July through August when monsoon season hits. Then we usually have the heat AND the humidity, but WE actually RARELY get the rain. It rains all around us, but we hardly ever get it . I love the rain!
Here it is like walking into a HUGE convection oven! The sun BURNS your skin as soon as you walk out the door!
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Old 07-12-2007, 04:00 PM
 
Location: 602/520
2,441 posts, read 3,689,223 times
Reputation: 1815
Phoenix's summers are pretty unbearable. We have been above 100 degrees every day for the past 30 days, above 105 for 29 of those 30. The good thing about Phoenix is that the humidity stays relatively low, so while your skin feels like it's literally burning off, you don't have the high humidity to go with it. Also, many get acclimated to the heat out here. If there is a long streak of 110+ temperatures, a following day with a high of 103 will feel nice.

As far as people refuting the humidity in Iowa. Iowa actually has the highest recorded dewpoint in the entire country. That's right, a higher dewpoint temperature has been recorded in Iowa than on the Gulf Coast, the South, and the Eastern Seaboard. While the humidity in Texas and the South is constant, when heatwaves hit the Midwest and Northeast, they often bring with them heat and humidity that is unrivaled anywhere else in the US. Atlanta has not had a temperature above 100 degrees in quite a few years, while DC, Philly, and New York have all seen temperatures between 99-102 within the past 5 years. Keep in mind that this heat comes with dewpoints in the upper 60s to mid 70s.
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