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Would you consider my climate to get a winter?. There are about 10 days with 10C/50F or colder maximums, but most years won't see below 9C/48F. The minimums are different though with 3 months of 2C/34F or colder average minimums. Lots of frosts, although this year is very different.
As you know snow is rare, but is very close. Cold winds straight of the snow are common during winter ( from only 10 kms away)
It would probably fail your gloom test with a 140 hour average in June, although the total this year will be lucky to reach 100 hours.
You mentioned cutting the grass and wasps close to the winter solstice which to me would be no, but that's a milder than average year as you say. The fact that you normally have frosts and unlike us guaranteed snow at least close by tip me in favour of yes, though it would likely be the easiest winter I've ever seen.
As far as gloom is concerned, it's an either/or thing with that and snow/frosts - I wouldn't need both to call it a winter, but I definitely need one.
What you get is more winter though than some 'winters' people talk about. I remember being in Guatemala in their wet season a few years ago and somebody referring to it as being their winter even though that particular day was absolutely insanely hot (perhaps 33C, 50% humidity or so) just because it generally rained for a couple of hours in the afternoon. Er..
lol, funny!
i know i wont be going to guatemala if their winter gets 33c!! lol
Would you consider my climate to get a winter?. There are about 10 days with 10C/50F or colder maximums, but most years won't see below 9C/48F. The minimums are different though with 3 months of 2C/34F or colder average minimums. Lots of frosts, although this year is very different.
As you know snow is rare, but is very close. Cold winds straight of the snow are common during winter ( from only 10 kms away)
It would probably fail your gloom test with a 140 hour average in June, although the total this year will be lucky to reach 100 hours.
Longterm June averages are 149 for Nelson and 152 for Blenheim. Unless you're close to the hills it should be similar around Motueka.
Would you consider my climate to get a winter?. There are about 10 days with 10C/50F or colder maximums, but most years won't see below 9C/48F. The minimums are different though with 3 months of 2C/34F or colder average minimums. Lots of frosts, although this year is very different.
As you know snow is rare, but is very close. Cold winds straight of the snow are common during winter ( from only 10 kms away)
It would probably fail your gloom test with a 140 hour average in June, although the total this year will be lucky to reach 100 hours.
I think the tough part of that is that is “winter” seems to have a modestly different meaning depending on where you are (outside the tropics of course): To someone in Moscow, Toronto, Chicago, Berlin,...etc, “winter “ might mean daily high temps in the 30’s F and snow on the ground. Yet to someone in Fuzhou, Athens, Houston, TX,...etc “winter” might mean daily highs in the lower 60’s F. Are 40’s winter? Are 50’s winter? Is it fair to say daily highs in the 50’s should be considered winter... when there are many locations that have daily highs in the 20’s all winter? To me relativity is what makes the description of winter/summer very difficult. Although sunshine might be desirable to many people, a lack of it should not be considered a staple of winter.
What you describe above (few days below 50F but colder nights in the lower 30’s and lots of frost)...while I would consider it winter, I would consider it a fairly mild winter.. maybe winter” lite” (lol). “No winter” to me would mean a location where average night temps stay above 50 F (10 C) or so. I think places like Brisbane, Orlando, Hong Kong, San Diego...etc could be considered as having no winter at all.
If someone likes 80's and 40 seem very cold, I understand, but doesn't make it winter. I don't go by calendar winter, I go by when the temps never get above 30, for over a month, that is winter, plain and simple.
By your definition, only the Upper Midwest has "real" winters then. The Northeast as far as Boston and most of Europe don't have a real winter either. In fact, 90% of the country doesn't even drop below freezing during the winter months.
- If you have a fall season, you have a winter, period. Where there are four seasons, the term winter was coined to define the period of the year following the fall . If you get temperatures cold enough to observe autumn color, then you have a true winter.
By your definition, only the Upper Midwest has "real" winters then. The Northeast as far as Boston and most of Europe don't have a real winter either. In fact, 90% of the country doesn't even drop below freezing during the winter months.
- If you have a fall season, you have a winter, period. Where there are four seasons, the term winter was coined to define the period of the year following the fall . If you get temperatures cold enough to observe autumn color, then you have a true winter.
Susancruzs might have a good point:
30 F (only two F off the freezing mark)…might make for a good definition of real winter vs mild winter. If the average 24 hr temp is much less than 32 F...then things are frozen day and night, no one could argue that such conditions would not be "real winter". I do think you have a good point - that if you get fall color, you most likely get a real winter.
One other note…If you meant that 90% of the USA doesn’t drop below freezing (in terms of mean monthly temps in the coldest month) I think it’s a bit less than that. Here is a map of average monthly mean temps (highs/lows) for January (our coldest month). The map might be off 1- 3 F +/-…but you get the idea. You can see at least 40% of the mainland USA has mean temps of less than 30 F:
Longterm June averages are 149 for Nelson and 152 for Blenheim. Unless you're close to the hills it should be similar around Motueka.
Good, even better. Last couple of months have been a bit dreary though!
Quote:
Originally Posted by wavehunter007
I think the tough part of that is that is “winter” seems to have a modestly different meaning depending on where you are (outside the tropics of course): To someone in Moscow, Toronto, Chicago, Berlin,...etc, “winter “ might mean daily high temps in the 30’s F and snow on the ground. Yet to someone in Fuzhou, Athens, Houston, TX,...etc “winter” might mean daily highs in the lower 60’s F. Are 40’s winter? Are 50’s winter? Is it fair to say daily highs in the 50’s should be considered winter... when there are many locations that have daily highs in the 20’s all winter? To me relativity is what makes the description of winter/summer very difficult. Although sunshine might be desirable to many people, a lack of it should not be considered a staple of winter.
What you describe above (few days below 50F but colder nights in the lower 30’s and lots of frost)...while I would consider it winter, I would consider it a fairly mild winter.. maybe winter” lite” (lol). “No winter” to me would mean a location where average night temps stay above 50 F (10 C) or so. I think places like Brisbane, Orlando, Hong Kong, San Diego...etc could be considered as having no winter at all.
Winter lite sounds right for here. Snowy vistas, crunchy frost underfoot, blazing fires etc and still pleasant t-shirt weather by most lunchtimes. Only a small handful of places in NZ would not get winter by your 10C/50F criteria, in what we call the "winterless north"
Your earlier point about "genetics" seems the most relevant for classing climates. The cause always comes before the effect. There is no contradiction to me in subtropical climates that can get colder than oceanic type climates, although as a gardener annual lows are the main limiting factor, rather than cool summers, at least in this climate.
Yesterdays weather was very summery looking even though the max temp was only 14C/57F. Towering cumulus (but only topping out at about 10 000 - 12 000 ft) scattered low cloud ( under 1000 ft) moving very quickly inland, even though it was totally still. Then heavy rain for about 2 minutes that produced 2 mm( big raindrops). Thunder about 50 km away, and a total clearance within about 1 hour. Subtropical looking weather, but with low temperatures.
30 F (only two F off the freezing mark)…might make for a good definition of real winter vs mild winter. If the average 24 hr temp is much less than 32 F...then things are frozen day and night, no one could argue that such conditions would not be "real winter". I do think you have a good point - that if you get fall color, you most likely get a real winter.
One other note…If you meant that 90% of the USA doesn’t drop below freezing (in terms of mean monthly temps in the coldest month) I think it’s a bit less than that. Here is a map of average monthly mean temps (highs/lows) for January (our coldest month). The map might be off 1- 3 F +/-…but you get the idea. You can see at least 40% of the mainland USA has mean temps of less than 30 F:
.
I wonder if this is really true though. I mean, I've heard that most places in Florida have deciduous trees that lose their leaves for the "cooler season" but I would hardly say that Florida has a "real winter".
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