Things that you only know/have only ever thought about from reading this forum (warmest, recorded)
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First of all, I stated up front the monthly mean was -1.5F. I didn't even go past 2007, yet I'm sure if you check 30 years worth of data you will find more years just like 2007. And 2nd of all, -1.5F is well within the Jan monthly mean std deviation of 5F. So, a monthly mean that has a diff of 1.5 degrees from the 30 year mean is really very close to average, and well within one std deviation. You can't only choose to look at the warmer than avg data, and never take a look at the other side. Theoretically, half the winters over the 30 year period will be colder than the mean.
I think you can't accept that winters in the cooler, oceanic climates you seem to detest are actually milder in the sense that they don't get these large temp variations. And they also probably never get the extreme lows that Houston does. And apparently gardening is much easier (much of England is in a higher USDA zone than the interior south).
I enjoy reading travel blogs, and I've stated this before, but Europeans and Australians in general are quite shocked spending time in the US South during winter thinking it is subtropical in the same sense they are used to. More than once they have described winters in the south as just as cold and damp as England in winter. I'd like to compare the winter temp swings a place like Seville, Spain or Naples, Italy with Charleston or Houston.
First of all, I stated up front the monthly mean was -1.5F. I didn't even go past 2007, yet I'm sure if you check 30 years worth of data you will find more years just like 2007. And 2nd of all, -1.5F is well within the Jan monthly mean std deviation of 5F. So, a monthly mean that has a diff of 1.5 degrees from the 30 year mean is really very close to average, and well within one std deviation. You can't only choose to look at the warmer than avg data, and never take a look at the other side. Theoretically, half the winters over the 30 year period will be colder than the mean.
I think you can't accept that winters in the cooler, oceanic climates you seem to detest are actually milder in the sense that they don't get these large temp variations. And they also probably never get the extreme lows that Houston does. And apparently gardening is much easier (much of England is in a higher USDA zone than the interior south).
I enjoy reading travel blogs, and I've stated this before, but Europeans and Australians in general are quite shocked spending time in the US South during winter thinking it is subtropical in the same sense they are used to. More than once they have described winters in the south as just as cold and damp as England in winter. I'd like to compare the winter temp swings a place like Seville, Spain or Naples, Italy with Charleston or Houston.
Winters in the South can certainly get cold at times, but surely English type weather would be the exception, rather than the rule. I would think that gardening would be only a little easier in the UK. Plenty of sad faces and tales of heartbreak in the UK gardening forums, from last winter.
First of all, I stated up front the monthly mean was -1.5F. I didn't even go past 2007, yet I'm sure if you check 30 years worth of data you will find more years just like 2007. And 2nd of all, -1.5F is well within the Jan monthly mean std deviation of 5F. So, a monthly mean that has a diff of 1.5 degrees from the 30 year mean is really very close to average, and well within one std deviation. You can't only choose to look at the warmer than avg data, and never take a look at the other side. Theoretically, half the winters over the 30 year period will be colder than the mean.
I think you can't accept that winters in the cooler, oceanic climates you seem to detest are actually milder in the sense that they don't get these large temp variations. And they also probably never get the extreme lows that Houston does. And apparently gardening is much easier (much of England is in a higher USDA zone than the interior south).
I enjoy reading travel blogs, and I've stated this before, but Europeans and Australians in general are quite shocked spending time in the US South during winter thinking it is subtropical in the same sense they are used to. More than once they have described winters in the south as just as cold and damp as England in winter. I'd like to compare the winter temp swings a place like Seville, Spain or Naples, Italy with Charleston or Houston.
Sorry, but I don't agree with you on the gardening part. You aren't going to find a thriving english garden in Houston nor will you find thriving heat loving subtropicals in Cornwall, both in Zone 9. One has long tropical summers, while the other is relatively cool year round. That's like comparing San Diego to Miami, both Zone 10 climates with drastic differences. It is not fair of you to lump Houston with Charleston either because Houston is much warmer on average. Average temperatures are just as important or more so then minimum temperatures.
Sorry, but I don't agree with you on the gardening part. You aren't going to find a thriving english garden in Houston nor will you find thriving heat loving subtropicals in Cornwall, both in Zone 9. One has long tropical summers, while the other is relatively cool year round. That's like comparing San Diego to Miami, both Zone 10 climates with drastic differences. It is not fair of you to lump Houston with Charleston either because Houston is much warmer on average. Average temperatures are just as important or more so then minimum temperatures.
I realize that. What I meant was that the cold outbreaks that occur in the US south sometimes wreak havoc there. In more stable climates without low extremes, gardening is easier. At least I think it is.
And one other thing, for all the 70's temps in Houston in Jan, there has to be highs in the low 50's, upper 40's in order to end up with an avg high temp of 62.2 for January.
I don't care how Wavehunter spins it, but just looking at a month he posted, Jan 2008, the high went from 79 on the 7th, to 45 on the 18th (34 degrees diff), then back up to 71 on the 22nd, back down to 45 on the 25, up again to 79 on the 29th, and then down to 55 on the 30th.
These are typical temp swings in the month of Jan for Houston. And to me, they would drive me nuts. You just never know when the floor is gonna drop out on your temps.
I took a look at Seville for Jan 2006 which seemed to avg right about normal high/low which is around 60/41(it was the most recent year that I found). The lowest high was 50 (better than Houston), and highest high was 66 (not as good as Houston). The majority of the month, 23 days, the high temp was between 56 and 64. The absolute low for the month was 35 (much better than Houston's 27). Seville had a total of 23 days 56F or higher, while Houston, in a warmer than avg month, and in a city with a higher avg high( 62.2 vs. 60) only managed 20.
In Seville, no where in the month did the high temp vary by more than 16 degrees, and the 16 degree diff only happened twice. Seville ended up having not a single day with a high temp in the 40's compared to Houston's five days with highs in the 40's.
Seville, along with all of Europe, does far, far better than Houston given the latitude. And, the avg high for Houston is 62.2, actually higher than Seville's. I would take a Jan in Seville any day over Houston. You know what you can expect, upper 50's and low 60's almost every day. And not a single day in the 40's, while Houston had almost of week of 40's.
I think I'd rather get 17 days in the 60's, without any 40's, vs Houston and the 70's along with the 40's. I like stability in temps, and the US just doesn't have it in the winter, at least east of the Rockies.
Plenty of sad faces and tales of heartbreak in the UK gardening forums, from last winter.
Very much the exception rather than the rule. Last winter was the coldest for 100 years in many areas, and December was the 2nd coldest in 350 years of records.
First of all, I stated up front the monthly mean was -1.5F. I didn't even go past 2007, yet I'm sure if you check 30 years worth of data you will find more years just like 2007. And 2nd of all, -1.5F is well within the Jan monthly mean std deviation of 5F. So, a monthly mean that has a diff of 1.5 degrees from the 30 year mean is really very close to average, and well within one std deviation. You can't only choose to look at the warmer than avg data, and never take a look at the other side. Theoretically, half the winters over the 30 year period will be colder than the mean.
I think you can't accept that winters in the cooler, oceanic climates you seem to detest are actually milder in the sense that they don't get these large temp variations. And they also probably never get the extreme lows that Houston does. And apparently gardening is much easier (much of England is in a higher USDA zone than the interior south).
I enjoy reading travel blogs, and I've stated this before, but Europeans and Australians in general are quite shocked spending time in the US South during winter thinking it is subtropical in the same sense they are used to. More than once they have described winters in the south as just as cold and damp as England in winter. I'd like to compare the winter temp swings a place like Seville, Spain or Naples, Italy with Charleston or Houston.
First of all...you didn’t go past 2007...because the data only goes back five years (lol).
Of course a monthly mean that has a diff of 1.5 degrees from the 30 year mean is really very close to average...but I noticed you don’t dare use months that were +1.5 or more ABOVE normal. YOU only choose to look at the coldest avg data you can find. Yes, and HALF the winters over the 30 year period will be WARMER than the mean. You can spin it both ways. Of course, you don’t want to look at even the ones that are just 0.5 F warmer than average (lol).
Next, of course I don’t detest oceanic climates (lol)...I simply point out climate facts and differences between regions and climates...and that seems to bother you and your attempt to spin things. As other CD members have pointed out, your posts like “Bye Bye Coconut Palms in Texas” point out your driving agenda. You just saying something doesn’t make it true. Yet when you are faced with the hard data and facts...then your argument changes. Now we should compare Spain to Houston.
You can try to paint Temperate Oceanic climates in any light you want...or try to take a few days of of each winter in the American subtropics and spin it any way you want...but the hard numbers CLEARLY show that subtropical climates like Houston are far more desirable in winter than climates like Seattle, London, and of course Phipdelphia. Subtropical climates like Houston are often warm and sunny in winter, Temperate oceanic and contentianl climates like Philly are NOT. I have too been in Europe in winter, and London/Paris/Frankfurt/ is often cold and rainy...while climates like Houston are often sunny and warm. Climate genetics see to that. Whether you can admit that to yourself is your issue I’m sure.
Case in point...look at this past February (2011). The monthly mean temp in Houston was +0.4 (much clsoer to ave that -1.5F -lol):
The climatic fact is that a climate like Houston will have a few fleeting cool shots a handfull of times in each winter month, beyond that the weather is often sunny and warm. When you find a February (or any winter month) in Seattle, London, or Philadelphia (lol)….that has numbers like that …let us know. In fact, I'll bet you can't find winter temps like that in much of the Mediterranean in the winter months. The numbers are the facts...and the facts are the numbers, no matter how you try to spin it.
Last edited by wavehunter007; 06-24-2011 at 06:34 AM..
When you find a February (or any winter month) in Seattle, London, or Philadelphia (lol)….that has numbers like that …let us know. In fact, I'll bet you can't find winter temps like that in much of the Mediterranean in the winter months. The numbers are the facts...and the facts are the numbers, no matter how you try to spin it. I’ll give you 50 year worth of data to use.
Mostly true but there are several Mediterranean cities with winters just as warm as this. For example, Seville in Spain, and many of the coastal cities of Northern Africa which are incidentally all further north than Houston.
I think mediterranean cities are the most impressive temperature wise compared with their latitude, in the whole world.
Mostly true but there are several Mediterranean cities with winters just as warm as this. For example, Seville in Spain, and many of the coastal cities of Northern Africa which are incidentally all further north than Houston.
I think mediterranean cities are the most impressive temperature wise compared with their latitude, in the whole world.
I agree - Mediterranean cities are most impressive temp wise compared to their latitude. Also, they are warmer (in the winter months) "for their latitude" than a city like Houston.
Of course, Mediterranean cities are all located in the subtropics (Cs)...not Temperate oceanic climates (Do). As far as Seaville, Spain, the monthly mean January temp is around 10.5 C (51 F)...just about the same as Houston at 51.9 F. So it seems highs should/could be in the same ball park.
This whole side topic to the original thread started because I mentioned the drastic temp changes that occur in N. America in winter. Interesting to note that other posters stated that one of the things they learned from this forum is how cold the US South can get in winter. You can never deny that fact. The temp swings in Houston, Atlanta, Dallas, etc. are more drastic than a lot of other subtropical climates. I'm not sure why you are bringing Philadelphia into this. I never once claimed anything about Philadelphia having a better climate than Houston. Of course Houston is on average warmer than Philadelphia. It's a lot further south.
Just as other posters have preferences for temps being hot or cold, I have a preference. I cannot stand drastic changes in temps that occur quickly. I like temp stability. I have an issue with adjusting to a given temp, more than whether the temp is hot or cold. For me, the American southeast subtropics are a failure in that regard. I've spend quite a lot of time in the winter in the South with my employer. Btw, the interior south is more drastic in temp swings than the coastal areas.
Very much the exception rather than the rule. Last winter was the coldest for 100 years in many areas, and December was the 2nd coldest in 350 years of records.
True, but gardening in winter appears to be quite a task (I'm talking about gardening with a subtropical theme ) there. Plants adapted to a cooler climate would do better in the UK, but a lot of the standard hardy palms, citrus etc, seem to have similar issues with cold outbreaks in both climates. The UK also has the problem, which the South doesn't, of prolonged colder maximum temps and low sunshine hours. The UK would certainly be a better gardening climate, given the latitude.
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