West Virginia...Southern or Northern? (Charleston, Parkersburg: houses, neighborhood, incomes)

[bigbrowneyes3586]

Originally Posted by NCN

I have found this thread very interesting because of the way people think. I thought the question was whether West Virginia is a Southern or Northern state and the answer should be a clear Northern state, because is that not why West Virginia is separated from Virginia? Virginia is Southern and West Virginia is Northern. Did I miss something somewhere or is history being rewritten by current posters? What does poverty have to do with a state being Southern or Northern? There is some really strange thinking going on here!

From a Civil War standpoint that's true. But within the state the feelings were pretty much mutual that we were a neglected region. We weren't getting anything out of being allied with the South or the North. What was more is that the solidarity of WV was being jeopardized by people picking sides. So we just became our own state. It was better that way. But i don't think the gist of the subject was necessarily political as it was what type of social identity we have among other East Coast states.

[Bobilee]

I think you will enjoy A House Divided, $15 was a good price for it. Another important book, which you will probably have to get through the library, is "The Disruption of Virginia" by James McGregor, 1922. It was the first book to debunk the Statehood movement. I think Carlile abandoned the new state because he was a "state's rights man" and slaveholder and hated the Willey Amendment and saw it as an intrusion by the Federal government. Another of the myths about WV is that many were against slavery, but this was not true.

I would like to correct some mis-impressions that probably occurred from some of my earlier posts in other threads. When I said that two-thirds of West Virginia supported the Confederacy I was referring to two-thirds of the territory. Richard Curry estimated the Union/Confederate sympathies at 60/40, though he said he deliberately favored the Union. I think it is much too generous on the Union side, as recent studies of WV soldiers shows about 50% as Confederate. The Moore Center in Shepherdstown is doing a hand count of soldiers so we should have as accurate a number as possible in a few years.

I wish WV did as good a job in marketing itself as Kentucky. Tourism is a great renewable resource. I recently tried to find a book on historic architecture in West Virginia, and couldn't find even one, and we have a great number of historic structures. There was recently published a book on the Art and Artists of West Virginia, which is a step in the right direction, I hope they do a lot more. As far as the Southern thing goes, we are as Southern as Virginia, there is no logical reason against it. They also have northern influences in the upper sections of the state. If you want a good visual of how West Virginians view themselves here is the color coded 2000 US Census Ancestry map, and you can clearly see a fairly clean break between KY/WV/VA and OH/PA.

[NCN]

Image:Census Regions and Divisions.PNG - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I learn something new on CD every day. I had always thought of West Virginia as being a Northern State because of its separation from Virginia during the Civil War. So I went looking for the answer and found several sources that listed it as a Southern Region state.

My only thought on this subject came about in the break room when I introduced my friend from Virginia to my friend from West Virginia. Someone commented that they were both Virginians. The friend from West Virginia said, "Yes, but they don't claim us." The friend from Virginia said, "No, we don't." From that exchange, I thought it was a done deal that West Virginia was Northern because they did not secede from the Union with the other Southern States.

I had never really considered Maryland, Deleware, or West Virginia as Southern states??

[Colby "The Punk" Wells]

Originally Posted by NCN

I have found this thread very interesting because of the way people think. I thought the question was whether West Virginia is a Southern or Northern state and the answer should be a clear Northern state, because is that not why West Virginia is separated from Virginia? Virginia is Southern and West Virginia is Northern. Did I miss something somewhere or is history being rewritten by current posters? What does poverty have to do with a state being Southern or Northern? There is some really strange thinking going on here!

What are you talking about, I only said the majority of poverty is in the South. Of course there are poor places in the North as well. North Dakota is a good example. Do you actually think that West Virginia is in the North? Are you kidding me? Didn't you read my post from earlier, NCN? Two-thirds of what would become West Virginia supported the Confederacy, and 50% of the troops were Confederate. It only became a state by Wheeling Unionists, the citizens of western Virginia had little to do with it. This is the truth, and if you don't believe me, there are plenty of books out there that prove this.

Most people here speak with a fluent Southern accent and are friendly and laid back, kudzu grows in certain areas of the state and most of the state is in the Bible Belt. Most of West Virginia's citizens are of American ancestry, not German like most Northerners. People here eat biscuits and gravy, eat grits, and drink sweet tea. We are in the Census Bureau's South Atlantic region. Gov. Manchin is the chairman of the Southern Governors' Association. How much more Southern can you get? I can agree that the northern areas of WV are more northern in culture, compared to the other areas of the state, due to influence from Pittsburgh. From your area in Charlotte, it's only 2 hours and 45 minutes to West Virginia up 77.

This reply proves your lack of intelligence of West Virginia. And after seeing you did your research last post, I can forgive you.

Maryland used to be a Southern state, but due to the state becoming more Northeastern in culture, I don't consider it Southern, and Delaware, I don't know why the Census considers it Southern.

[Colby "The Punk" Wells]

Originally Posted by appalachiangirl

So if someone lives in Wheeling,WV they are Southern,but a few miles across the panhandle to Washington,Pa they are Northern? I've never noticed a difference between PA(southern) and northern WV (have lived both places--not in the panhandle either). But I agree the southern couties such as Raleigh,Kanawa,Greenbrier do seem Southern to some degree. I thinks the Southern states are less poor today and with more jobs than some more Northern ones-ex.Indiana, Ohio, Michigan, Pa have a lot of poverty versus growing states like North Carolina,Virginia, Texas (may be considered a Western state). It's a shame WV stays a poor state though as does east Kentucky.

I agree with you, there is no difference between Wheeling and Washington, PA. That's why the northern panhandle is the least Southern of West Virginia. It's above the Mason-Dixon extension and has steel mills, along with the Midwest. To be honest with you, I don't even consider the NP a part of West Va anymore. As for North-Central WV, they are influenced by Pittsburgh as well, but some Southern elements can be found there though. Who knows, there could be some Southern elements, carried over from WV in SW PA.

Originally Posted by appalachiangirl

Punk
I've eaten at the Wilderness Plantation with my family several years ago. Is it still in business? The food was delicious as I remember!

As far as I know, the plantation has been closed for a while now.

[appalachiangirl]

The Pittsburgh region has more of a mid-west influence (I think) as does northern West Virginia. True Northeast would seem New England,New York,some parts of Maryland and Delaware(although this area is often called Mid-Atlantic). One thing that is similar to SW Pa and West Virginia is the coal industry. And one major difference in speech which I notice occasionally in SW Pa and a few times in the Morgantown/Fairmont area is the word "Yins"--it kind of makes me cringe a bit! Y'all does sound nicer!

[Colby "The Punk" Wells]

One more thing everybody. On the poverty subject. Yes, like I have proved earlier, most of it (not all of it) is in the South. This is from Wikipedia.

Household income in the United States

Income by state

The median household income by state ranged from $34,343 or 28% below national median, in Mississippi to $66,752 or 39% above national median, in New Jersey. Connecticut, which is often referred to as the nation's wealthiest state,[52] came in at number four with a median household income of $60,551. California which had the highest median home price in the nation,[50] where home prices have far outpaced incomes[53] only ranked eleventh with a median household income of $54,385.[51] While California's median income was not near enough to afford the average California home or even a starter home, West Virginia, which had one of the nation's lowest median household incomes also had the nation's lowest median home price.[50][51] The northeastern states, more specifically those located in New England, as well as the West Coast had the highest median household income. Of the top fifteen states, all were located in the Northeast and West, with the exception of Minnesota which ranked eighth and Wisconsin (15th).

The southern states had, by far, the lowest median household income, with nine out of the country's fifteen poorest states being located in the South. It should be noted, however, that most of the poverty in the South is located in the Black Belt region. Metropolitan areas such as Atlanta, Nashville, Raleigh-Durham, Birmingham, Dallas, Houston, Miami, to name just a few, are areas within the southern states that have above average income levels. Overall, median household income tended to be the highest in nation's most urbanized northeastern, upper midwestern and west coast states, while rural areas mostly in the southern, and mountain states had the lowest median household income.[51]

Maryland 1 65,144
Hawaii 2 61,005
Connecticut 3 60,551
New Hampshire 4 60,411
Alaska 5 57,071
New Jersey 6 56,772
Massachusetts 7 56,592
Minnesota 8 56,102
Utah 9 55,619
Virginia 10 55,368
California 11 54,385
Colorado 12 53,900
Washington 13 53,515
Delaware 14 52,676
Rhode Island 15 52,421
Vermont 16 52,174
Nevada 17 51,036
Illinois 18 49,328
Wisconsin 19 48,903
Nebraska 20 48,820
New York 21 48,472
Georgia 22 48,388
Pennsylvania 23 48,148
Iowa 24 48,075
Michigan 25 48,043
United States national median ($ 48,023)
District of Columbia 26 47,473
Arizona 27 46,693
Wyoming 28 46,613
Oregon 29 46,349
Idaho 30 45,919
Ohio 31 45,776
Maine 32 45,503
Florida 33 45,038
South Dakota 34 44,996
Indiana 35 44,618
Missouri 36 44,487
Kansas 37 44,478
Texas 38 43,044
North Dakota 39 42,311
North Carolina 40 41,616
Tennessee 41 40,696
South Carolina 42 40,583
New Mexico 43 40,126
Montana 44 39,821
Oklahoma 45 38,859
Kentucky 46 38,694
Alabama 47 38,160
West Virginia 48 38,029
Louisiana 49 37,472
Arkansas 50 37,458
Mississippi 51 34,343


Median income

The state with the highest median household income in the United States as of the US Census Bureau 2005/06 is New Jersey with $66,752, followed by Maryland, Hawaii and Connecticut, making the Northeastern United States the wealthiest area by income in the entire country.

In terms of region the median household income was as follows: "Northeast ($47,994), West ($47,680) and South ($40,773)." Median household income in the Mid-West declined by 2.8% to $44,657.

[Colby "The Punk" Wells]

Originally Posted by appalachiangirl

The Pittsburgh region has more of a mid-west influence (I think) as does northern West Virginia. True Northeast would seem New England,New York,some parts of Maryland and Delaware(although this area is often called Mid-Atlantic). One thing that is similar to SW Pa and West Virginia is the coal industry. And one major difference in speech which I notice occasionally in SW Pa and a few times in the Morgantown/Fairmont area is the word "Yins"--it kind of makes me cringe a bit! Y'all does sound nicer!

I agree with you. There is some Midwest influence to northern WV (especially the panhandle, with the steel mills, etc.). In North-Central WV, it's a mix of Midwest and Southern, and the panhandle 90% Midwestern, in my opinion. Actually, I have heard that people from Pittsburgh are moving to Morgantown, so maybe the people you heard could have originally been from Pittsburgh. (I hope so at least.) And yes, y'all definitely sounds a lot better. Anyway, by looking at the Census ancestry maps provided by Bobilee, we can clearly see that the South (American) outweighs the Midwest (German) in WV.

Originally Posted by bobilee

I think you will enjoy A House Divided, $15 was a good price for it. Another important book, which you will probably have to get through the library, is "The Disruption of Virginia" by James McGregor, 1922. It was the first book to debunk the Statehood movement. I think Carlile abandoned the new state because he was a "state's rights man" and slaveholder and hated the Willey Amendment and saw it as an intrusion by the Federal government. Another of the myths about WV is that many were against slavery, but this was not true.

Thank you Bobilee, I appreciate the info you provided. And I will definitely check out The Disruption of VA next time I go to the library. Does Google Books have an online version?

[bigbrowneyes3586]

Originally Posted by appalachiangirl

And one major difference in speech which I notice occasionally in SW Pa and a few times in the Morgantown/Fairmont area is the word "Yins"--it kind of makes me cringe a bit! Y'all does sound nicer!

Me too. I personally say "y'all". I've heard a couple people say "yins" or "yuns", but I never have liked it. I suppose my family always leaned toward a Southern way of doing things. Maybe that's the way of defining the culture around here. Family is huge in WV. What's more is that most families have their own little twists. A lot of families have set themselves up as communities and do there own thing until the have to come closer in to town. So i'm sure that every family and region adds its own twist on WV's identity.

[David Kennedy]

Isn't this a nisnomer...Wv is about as southern or northern as say..California is western...
or Texas is Texas...West Texas is not Texas, its Mexico...Texas is East Texas where it saddles up to Lousiana...
just to complex to define...where I live the Pittsbugh influence has taken us over...