U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Work and Employment
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 1.5 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Jump to a detailed profile or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Business Search - 14 Million verified businesses
Search for:  near: 
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 04-12-2011, 01:55 PM
 
Location: Living on the Coast in Oxnard CA
10,509 posts, read 14,008,185 times
Reputation: 12177

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mystique13 View Post
".....That is the only promise that you have...."
Really? A job offer is not a promise. Promises are broken all the time. That's why lawyers, big corporations and the criminal justice system all make tons of money. It's the nature of people to break promises - "promises are made to be broken." A job offer is not a promise. It is a contract. It can be a written or it can be a verbal contract - but it's definitely not a promise. If someone promises to pay me but doesn't provide a W4 and other required paperwork, then it's a waste of my time. He can promise to pay me but if he underpays me or doesn't pay at all, then I have to sue or collect my money by intimidation/blackmail. Promises need to be in writing - either by required employment paperwork or contracts. Words without some kind of enforceable paper are useless.
You don't get anything more than the promise. What happens when you are working for someone and they don't have the money to pay you? You get nothing. Sure the promise is broken but what are you going to do about it?

The only thing you get when you have a job is an agreement to sell your time for money. That is it, nothing more. Employers can offer more if they choose to but they don't have to.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 04-12-2011, 01:58 PM
 
2,000 posts, read 2,759,516 times
Reputation: 1573
Quote:
Originally Posted by I_Love_LI_but View Post
The cheapest labor wins these days.

Didn't you even read her posts?

They are replacing her and her coworkers with a contractor whose employees taking over the jobs barely speak english. Cheap third world offshore outsourcing.

How is working like crazy going to help her in this matter?
Really depends on the company, on her skills, on her job.

My company offshores, on-shores-- all kinds of shores-- we move from one state to another, from one region to another, from one country to another. Some jobs come back to the US, some go to other places. You walk into our offices in Dublin and you will find a combination of Americans, Irish, Canadians, Indians, French, etc etc.

What I have found-- that has served me very well-- is to progress and know as much as about my business as possible. It is easy to offshore certain jobs-- and some jobs make more sense to offshore than others. Personally, I don't have a problem with it-- because I am willing to relocate, I am willing to move into different roles, and I am willing to extend myself to learn additional functions.

My peers who came into my company at the same time as I did, some chose never to go for higher positions with more responsibility. A few of them really liked doing the lower level positions we were hired for-- maybe they had families, maybe they preferred to not have the extra stress, longer hours, etc. A lot of their jobs-- I could see the writing on the wall 6 years ago-- these jobs did not have to be done with highly paid US workers-- fundamentally a lot of the jobs were data entry- what the business needed was those types of people to figure out how to better improve the process, re-engineer how we do business, and work with development to figure out new end to end solutions. The ones who seized that kind of idea, moved onward to better incomes and jobs. The ones who just liked doing their pretty low level jobs that paid over $20.00 an hour for data entry never though they would see the day that the business would move the center to poorer states as well as India.

Working hard, but smart, has some significant advantages. I took the advice of a senior leader over 6 years ago that the aspects that could not be offshored were depth and breadth of the business knowledge-- I made sure I focused my aspirations and experience on those focuses and it has kept me "safe" for a good chunk of time.

For what it is worth-- another side of my company is sunsetting a business-- the ones who were really valuable that they have paid to stay until the lights shut off-- a good chunk of them are being moved at the end of a time frame to new positions in the company where their skills are heavily valued and needed. The ones who never progressed into more strategic tasks, they have been laid off with generous severance. Unless the company is seriously bankrupt, most employers want to keep their shining stars--sometimes they dont have a choice and they have to shut down altogether, but more often than not if you contributed a lot of value to the company people and your network will help you find another role in the company (at least has been my experience in the past 3 companies I have worked for).
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-12-2011, 03:04 PM
 
Location: Nassau, Long Island, NY
15,856 posts, read 17,116,131 times
Reputation: 6523
Quote:
Originally Posted by lovetheduns View Post
Really depends on the company, on her skills, on her job.

My company offshores, on-shores-- all kinds of shores-- we move from one state to another, from one region to another, from one country to another. Some jobs come back to the US, some go to other places. You walk into our offices in Dublin and you will find a combination of Americans, Irish, Canadians, Indians, French, etc etc.

What I have found-- that has served me very well-- is to progress and know as much as about my business as possible. It is easy to offshore certain jobs-- and some jobs make more sense to offshore than others. Personally, I don't have a problem with it-- because I am willing to relocate, I am willing to move into different roles, and I am willing to extend myself to learn additional functions.

My peers who came into my company at the same time as I did, some chose never to go for higher positions with more responsibility. A few of them really liked doing the lower level positions we were hired for-- maybe they had families, maybe they preferred to not have the extra stress, longer hours, etc. A lot of their jobs-- I could see the writing on the wall 6 years ago-- these jobs did not have to be done with highly paid US workers-- fundamentally a lot of the jobs were data entry- what the business needed was those types of people to figure out how to better improve the process, re-engineer how we do business, and work with development to figure out new end to end solutions. The ones who seized that kind of idea, moved onward to better incomes and jobs. The ones who just liked doing their pretty low level jobs that paid over $20.00 an hour for data entry never though they would see the day that the business would move the center to poorer states as well as India.

Working hard, but smart, has some significant advantages. I took the advice of a senior leader over 6 years ago that the aspects that could not be offshored were depth and breadth of the business knowledge-- I made sure I focused my aspirations and experience on those focuses and it has kept me "safe" for a good chunk of time.

For what it is worth-- another side of my company is sunsetting a business-- the ones who were really valuable that they have paid to stay until the lights shut off-- a good chunk of them are being moved at the end of a time frame to new positions in the company where their skills are heavily valued and needed. The ones who never progressed into more strategic tasks, they have been laid off with generous severance. Unless the company is seriously bankrupt, most employers want to keep their shining stars--sometimes they dont have a choice and they have to shut down altogether, but more often than not if you contributed a lot of value to the company people and your network will help you find another role in the company (at least has been my experience in the past 3 companies I have worked for).
TY for your explanation.

So, in the OP's case, do you think if she worked extra and worked like "crazy" as was the advice given, it would keep her job for her?

Advice given:

Quote:
Student_101 - funnel that energy into working harder.

Prove to yourself, your family, your friends and your company that you can be better than anyone else you work with even in a tough environment. Use the emotions you have to fuel you on your job, and for the next four weeks work like hell. The best person in the office is not the first one laid off.

Emotions can be a tool to fuel motivation, or they can be an anchor dragging you down. You have to choose which you want your emotions to be.
I didn't think so from what she had posted. Actually, from what she had posted, I gathered that she didn't want to keep the job; just wanted to know when the layoff would actually occur. I was addressing the advice, which was totally off the mark.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-12-2011, 05:24 PM
 
2,000 posts, read 2,759,516 times
Reputation: 1573
Quote:
Originally Posted by I_Love_LI_but View Post
TY for your explanation.

So, in the OP's case, do you think if she worked extra and worked like "crazy" as was the advice given, it would keep her job for her?

Advice given:



I didn't think so from what she had posted. Actually, from what she had posted, I gathered that she didn't want to keep the job; just wanted to know when the layoff would actually occur. I was addressing the advice, which was totally off the mark.

Honestly LI, I have no idea. Depends on a lot of things really and working like "crazy" to me does not really "mean" anything. At the end of the day-- it is the quality of work someone does-- and within a reasonable amount of time.

All things being equal-- if Sally does a great job and can get her work done in 40 hours with high quality whereas Andrew can also do a great job with the same level of quality as Sally but takes 80 hours-- I would rather keep Sally around as she is not going to blow out my budget.


At any rate, more than likely at this point it would be too late-- my explanation is more of how you should approach, treat your job-- more like a guiding principle--- not a remedy for a potential lay off in the near future.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-12-2011, 08:12 PM
 
162 posts, read 370,967 times
Reputation: 127
Quote:
Originally Posted by littleelvis View Post
Something doesn't add up here. Why in the world would you be so devastated by an employer you were planning on leaving anyway?

You cry everyday knowing you want to be layed off? Why not look for another job? Looking for a little vacation are we?

It seems you more interested in the serverance pay than anything else.
Yes. That's how bad I hate it. I figured that I would have found another job that fit me by now. I started looking 3 months before they offered this to me. I still have resumes in a ton of places but it can take up to 3 months to even get a call for an interview.

Not looking for a vacation at all. Not my style. And tell me you wouldn't stick it out for $37k.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-12-2011, 08:25 PM
 
162 posts, read 370,967 times
Reputation: 127
Quote:
Originally Posted by lovetheduns View Post
Really depends on the company, on her skills, on her job.


.
For what it is worth-- another side of my company is sunsetting a business-- the ones who were really valuable that they have paid to stay until the lights shut off-- a good chunk of them are being moved at the end of a time frame to new positions in the company where their skills are heavily valued and needed. The ones who never progressed into more strategic tasks, they have been laid off with generous severance. Unless the company is seriously bankrupt, most employers want to keep their shining stars--sometimes they dont have a choice and they have to shut down altogether, but more often than not if you contributed a lot of value to the company people and your network will help you find another role in the company (at least has been my experience in the past 3 companies I have worked for).
They are asking that the good and high paying people leave first. If you suck at your job you weren't offered the enhance package. They are doing it the opposite of an involuntary. And the company is defintely not bankrupt they had a 170% profit last year.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-14-2011, 07:43 AM
 
140 posts, read 178,298 times
Reputation: 209
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mrs. Skeffington View Post
I worked at a law firm, and the first several years were great, but by my ninth year it was obvious they wanted to get rid of me. I went from where I was earning the bosses' praise and yearly raises and added vacation time, to being nitpicked, yelled at, left out of the loop, given a pay cut, lost my paid holidays, and had most of my vacation days taken away. I was constantly told I was "free to quit" and they "wouldn't contest my unemployment". Then, after ten years, they terminated me, again telling me "they wouldn't contest my unemployment". They brought in someone to replace me, cheaper, another legal secretary whose previous employer hadjust done the same thing to HER.
Classic and textbook example of the fact that if an employer wants you gone, there isn't a damn thing you can do about it.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-14-2011, 06:45 PM
FBJ
 
Location: Tall Building down by the river
35,135 posts, read 24,398,853 times
Reputation: 7924
Quote:
Originally Posted by STT Resident View Post
You know, Grasshopper, you really must stay ahead of the game if you're ever going to move ahead as an employment advisor. It's not unusual at all even though you never in your life heard of it.
Employment advisors are supposed tio know everything I see
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-15-2011, 11:02 PM
 
162 posts, read 370,967 times
Reputation: 127
Quote:
Originally Posted by TVandSportsGuy View Post
Employment advisors are supposed tio know everything I see
Now you know! I hadn't heard of it before either until I was offered it 2 years ago and declined. Yet another reason I took it second time around. You usually don't get asked twice in a 2 year period without knowing your job is about to be gone!!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-16-2011, 08:02 AM
 
Location: NYC
1,981 posts, read 1,647,780 times
Reputation: 1413
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mrs. Skeffington View Post
I didn't cry on my way to work, but I was sick to my stomach with tension, and boy did I cry on the way home (and make weekly stops at the liquor store). I worked at a law firm, and the first several years were great, but by my ninth year it was obvious they wanted to get rid of me. I went from where I was earning the bosses' praise and yearly raises and added vacation time, to being nitpicked, yelled at, left out of the loop, given a pay cut, lost my paid holidays, and had most of my vacation days taken away. I was constantly told I was "free to quit" and they "wouldn't contest my unemployment". Then, after ten years, they terminated me, again telling me "they wouldn't contest my unemployment". They brought in someone to replace me, cheaper, another legal secretary whose previous employer hadjust done the same thing to HER.

Law firms are horrible places to work. I have worked in law since 1995 (5 different firms total), and only one place I worked at was decent, not good, but decent. Lawyers are awful, inconsiderate bosses. They also could give two craps about their employees, esp. if you are "beneath" them, meaning in any type of administrative role. I find I have to switch jobs every few years to keep from losing my mind. I never got fired, just quit on my own to escape the insanity.

I am looking for a way out of this field. I also have that sick feeling in my stomach like OP on my way to work. It's no way to live.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $84,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Work and Employment
Similar Threads

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 04:35 AM.

2005-2014, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25 - Top