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Kind of like how the corporations pay billions to lobby and shift the political spectrum in their favor? Fighting fire with fire, if I may say so myself. No wonder DC has such a high COL.
Kind of like how the corporations pay billions to lobby and shift the political spectrum in their favor? Fighting fire with fire, if I may say so myself. No wonder DC has such a high COL.
Except the corps did gain from their investment. The unions gained nothing.
Except the corps did gain from their investment. The unions gained nothing.
Should have gone after a smaller fish.
Hmm, something to be proud of... The deep pockets of the round table committees at the wealthiest corporations, and all their ill gotten plunders. And unions are the bad guys
Per the topic of this thread... You don't think the unions could ever stage a comeback? Was it not during the great depression that unions really began to gain steam, after a long decline? Kind of mirrors what we are seeing today All it takes are some exchange of ideas to spark something of a movement. An interesting medium of exchange we have today is the internet. Get enough people's attention, and who knows. What if enough people just happened to get behind an idea? Perhaps, "national don't go to your crappy, low paying job day". I would applaud if all the Walmart workers just happened to take the day off. Heck, I would hope they would take the whole week off. And for a couple hundred bucks a week, what do they really have to loose at that point? They'll be laid off at someone elses will, why not exercise some muscle and lay themselves off for the day for a change.
Labor may be controllable in your eyes, since that is your job, but some things can only be pushed so far. When it starts cutting into my paycheck in the way of taxes, than I start thinking, there really has got to be a better way, cause this simply isn't working... Question... Those $12-$14/hr jobs you speak of, with raises every decade... If your workers walked off, are you gonna sit and fiddle with the machines? You gonna get your nice threads all dirty and get some grit under your finger nails? The smart ones usually don't stick with that kind of nonsense too long, and management always asks why. No mystery here...
And another thought... You're a hop and a skip away from winning the race to the bottom. What do you get when ya win?
Hmm, something to be proud of... The deep pockets of the round table committees at the wealthiest corporations, and all their ill gotten plunders. And unions are the bad guys
Per the topic of this thread... You don't think the unions could ever stage a comeback? Was it not during the great depression that unions really began to gain steam, after a long decline? Kind of mirrors what we are seeing today All it takes are some exchange of ideas to spark something of a movement.
Labor may be controllable in your eyes, since that is your job, but some things can only be pushed so far. When it starts cutting into my paycheck in the way of taxes, than I start thinking, there really has got to be a better way, cause this simply isn't working... Question... Those $12-$14/hr jobs you speak of, with raises every decade... If your workers walked off, are you gonna sit and fiddle with the machines? ...
Unlike the depression, its a global economy, and quite frankly,in some cases corps have dumbed down the jobs to some degree, meaning in some cases, facilities processes plus technology has allowed lower grade level employees than previously used. Now technology in other cases has created jobs for higher skill sets, as you know. But, and this is the great change vs the 30s, in both cases, the need for labor is a fraction of suupply. So for unions to come back they have to inspire people NOT working to forgo those $12-14 opportunities you diss when one opens up as another already employed quits. The odds of hitting powerball are better than getting all to forgo those opps.
Hmm, something to be proud of... The deep pockets of the round table committees at the wealthiest corporations, and all their ill gotten plunders. And unions are the bad guys
I'm not applauding the corps-just admitting at least they did not burn money being blinded by an agenda. If a corp exec had wasted the money the SEIU had in going after WM and coming up empty, they would be fired and not hired by any other corp. Branded properly a failure.
Those who are vehmentally anti-union won't admit this, but they are advocating for American workers to get low pay and worse benefits.
This is the main benefit of unions and all the statistics bare this reality out. Union workers make more money and get better benefits and are able to protect their rights as employees under the law.
This is the "evil" that unions have brought. Any other discussions about the so called downsides of unions are usually just make believe or exaggeration.
Unlike the depression, its a global economy, and quite frankly,in some cases corps have dumbed down the jobs to some degree, meaning in some cases, facilities processes plus technology has allowed lower grade level employees than previously used. Now technology in other cases has created jobs for higher skill sets, as you know. But, and this is the great change vs the 30s, in both cases, the need for labor is a fraction of suupply. So for unions to come back they have to inspire people NOT working to forgo those $12-14 opportunities you diss when one opens up as another already employed quits. The odds of hitting powerball are better than getting all to forgo those opps.
Bob, technology has had that effect for over a century. Guess what... We still have blacksmiths today, along with more efficient ways of doing things. When they made a machine for cutting gears decades ago, you needed a guy to set the thing up, and a guy to load the blanks and watch it. Eventually the guy watching it, if he was smart, figured out how to set it up, and then he was as good as gone. Same old story, just a different time period. Inevitably, your left with a shop full of the ones who weren't smart enough, and a pile of broken tools and equipment. That's ok, that's a tax write off
Technology will never eliminate man, because technology will always, to some degree, require man. With an operating manual, about a weeks worth of time to take it home and read it, and some time working with it, I can make that machine dance for you. Guess what, you ain't gonna get me to do it for $12-$14/hr though And for the lack of braincells the factories attract today, you better hope guys like me stick with it. The $12-$14/hr guy is worth just that... $12-$14/hr. He is not going to drive innovation or keep America competitive in anything. Our lack of quality in manufacturing machine tools should give you an indication of how our marginalized value attitude is carrying us into this brave new world. WE SUCK. I won't even touch a Haas CNC because it's complete garbage. Any shop making any money around here is all but forced to buy Japanese technology, filled with European cutting tools, cause it makes money. Expensive as heck, but it sure does make a lot of money. And to train the workers, we take a lot of time and energy, and protect out investments by paying them a livable wage. I go to the auction block and all I see are American made machines of the last 10 years, because America can't build anything right anymore. Looking at the pay scales, it's simply no wonder.
And I used to love American made tools. I still do, if their 30 years old and sold at a garage sale. Everything is complete garbage today. I won't even buy the American carbide inserts anymore. They chip out in short order and never seem to be set to the proper dimensions. Now I'm buying Sandvich. Had to convince the boss it was worth the extra $$$, but since they last 4X as long, he's happy. We can't do anything right anymore.
Andywire, Again, you are an anomoly. There are 10-20 Tier 2 bottom of wage scale types at $10-$12 per horu for every Andy , and that is why the $12-14 average rate present in most of America today exists. Its a blended average of both, but the bulk are not like you.
Unlike the depression, its a global economy, and quite frankly,in some cases corps have dumbed down the jobs to some degree, meaning in some cases, facilities processes plus technology has allowed lower grade level employees than previously used. Now technology in other cases has created jobs for higher skill sets, as you know. But, and this is the great change vs the 30s, in both cases, the need for labor is a fraction of suupply. So for unions to come back they have to inspire people NOT working to forgo those $12-14 opportunities you diss when one opens up as another already employed quits. The odds of hitting powerball are better than getting all to forgo those opps.
So why does the United States have to be part of the "global economy"?? I've been saying for years that we really need to become an isolationist country like we were in the past - it served us well then, and it'll certainly serve us well now. Slap some big, gnarly tariffs up, and use those savings to drop domestic corporate taxes to zero - yes, zero. Make it horrendously costly to import products AND profits from overseas, and at the same time, make it a total gravy train to do business on American soil.
And to correct the imbalance of labor and supply, the obvious thing to do is to shorten the work week, so more people can get back to to work. I say take it down in stages, like 38 hours, then 36, working our way down to 32 hours. Then make anything over 40 hours double pay, to force companies to hire more people instead of piling on the overtime.
Of course, another solution to "globalism" is to fight another World War. We may yet come to that, but I'd rather try the more sensible options first before we go around wiping out half the planet's population.
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All it takes are some exchange of ideas to spark something of a movement. An interesting medium of exchange we have today is the internet. Get enough people's attention, and who knows. What if enough people just happened to get behind an idea? Perhaps, "national don't go to your crappy, low paying job day". I would applaud if all the Walmart workers just happened to take the day off. Heck, I would hope they would take the whole week off. And for a couple hundred bucks a week, what do they really have to loose at that point? They'll be laid off at someone elses will, why not exercise some muscle and lay themselves off for the day for a change.
And for the lack of braincells the factories attract today, you better hope guys like me stick with it. The $12-$14/hr guy is worth just that... $12-$14/hr. He is not going to drive innovation or keep America competitive in anything. Our lack of quality in manufacturing machine tools should give you an indication of how our marginalized value attitude is carrying us into this brave new world. WE SUCK. I won't even touch a Haas CNC because it's complete garbage. Any shop making any money around here is all but forced to buy Japanese technology, filled with European cutting tools, cause it makes money. Expensive as heck, but it sure does make a lot of money. And to train the workers, we take a lot of time and energy, and protect out investments by paying them a livable wage. I go to the auction block and all I see are American made machines of the last 10 years, because America can't build anything right anymore. Looking at the pay scales, it's simply no wonder.
