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So why does the United States have to be part of the "global economy"?? I've been saying for years that we really need to become an isolationist country like we were in the past - it served us well then, and it'll certainly serve us well now. Slap some big, gnarly tariffs up, and use those savings to drop domestic corporate taxes to zero - yes, zero. Make it horrendously costly to import products AND profits from overseas, and at the same time, make it a total gravy train to do business on American soil.
And to correct the imbalance of labor and supply, the obvious thing to do is to shorten the work week, so more people can get back to to work. I say take it down in stages, like 38 hours, then 36, working our way down to 32 hours. Then make anything over 40 hours double pay, to force companies to hire more people instead of piling on the overtime.
Of course, another solution to "globalism" is to fight another World War. We may yet come to that, but I'd rather try the more sensible options first before we go around wiping out half the planet's population.
The point I have tried to make was the United States must be part of the globalism process, the way many other countries have successfully done like Germany, Switzerland, Norway, Sweden, Denmark, and many other high wage, export driven nations. They do it by making things people, like me, want to buy, and that starts with quality, and ultimately, THAT starts with the worker. The idea that you can keep paying a worker less and remain a leader in anything in the new age of globalism is simply a fantasy. As many have said, mediocre is simply not acceptable. You must be THE BEST.
We are a high wage nation. We cannot compete with China for marti gras bead work, because we cannot beat them on price no matter how hard we try. The $10/hr wages being described will never allow us to cater to a customer base demanding quality and challenging specifications above price. These two challenges together are what has bled our manufacturing base away, not just slave wage nations. You didn't hear high wage, union friendly Germany whining about the rise of China.
Some customers won't come no matter how low you make your workers work for. Many customers will never come back once they realize you cannot consistently deliver on your word. You're walking a very fine line when the workers representing your good name are those so close to qualifying for state subsidies. I have seen an awful lot of businesses go bankrupt as their labor rates have danced lower and lower... Once they hit around $10/hr for their mig welders, I give em around 6 months till I can buy their tools on the auction block
So why does the United States have to be part of the "global economy"?? I've been saying for years that we really need to become an isolationist country like we were in the past - it served us well then, and it'll certainly serve us well now. .
Unlike "than", we can produce everything we need with no more than 50% of the population working. What is your advice for 80 million of 160 million workforce not working, Einstein?
The point I have tried to make was the United States must be part of the globalism process, the way many other countries have successfully done like Germany, Switzerland, Norway, Sweden, Denmark, and many other high wage, export driven nations. They do it by making things people, like me, want to buy, and that starts with quality, and ultimately, THAT starts with the worker. The idea that you can keep paying a worker less and remain a leader in anything in the new age of globalism is simply a fantasy. As many have said, mediocre is simply not acceptable. You must be THE BEST.
We are a high wage nation. We cannot compete with China for marti gras bead work, because we cannot beat them on price no matter how hard we try. The $10/hr wages being described will never allow us to cater to a customer base demanding quality and challenging specifications above price. These two challenges together are what has bled our manufacturing base away, not just slave wage nations. You didn't hear high wage, union friendly Germany whining about the rise of China.
Some customers won't come no matter how low you make your workers work for. Many customers will never come back once they realize you cannot consistently deliver on your word. You're walking a very fine line when the workers representing your good name are those so close to qualifying for state subsidies. I have seen an awful lot of businesses go bankrupt as their labor rates have danced lower and lower... Once they hit around $10/hr for their mig welders, I give em around 6 months till I can buy their tools on the auction block
I think you hit the nail dead on the head with this one. I think unions do need to be more accountable to their members but I still think they will have a place in the future. It's not surprising that most of the unionized EU countries and Japan and countries in a similar boat aren't intimidated by China or Indonesia as far as manufacturing goes. Personally, I think that each seperate set of countries seem to have their own specialties as far as high quality products go.
USA/Canada - Raw materials and food products
Japan/South Korea/Taiwan - Electronics and video games
European Nations - industrial tools and the like
This is just my experience, maybe you and others have had different experiences. CHinese made products overall have not been good to me. I bought a paper shredder from Target once for $9 and it worked twice before it jammed up permanently. I remember getting so mad that I went outside and pummelled it with a baseball bat (made in USA haha) and went to Best BUy and bought a better shredder (still made in China but at least works better than the $9 one). No hatred towards Target but I can understand how they make their money and why people hate on them and Wallyworld and the like. For the record, most retail is nothing but cheap **** made in China. Perhaps not so coincidentally most retail is non-union just like most manufacturing in China. I guess birds of a feather will flock together.
One thing I have noticed is that a lot of the products made in China are typically ones that require a lot of physical labor to make. Clothing is one good example; a lot of this is outsourced to China and Indonesia. Toys are another example, like the Barbie dolls and such. On the other hand, I've seen quite a few things like tools made in the USA. I'm guessing it's because tools like screwdrivers aren't as labor intense to make as stuff like toys and clothing. Is that sort of the norm? I've watched episodes of How It's Made and this seems pretty much the norm to me.
One thing I have noticed is that a lot of the products made in China are typically ones that require a lot of physical labor to make. Clothing is one good example; a lot of this is outsourced to China and Indonesia. Toys are another example, like the Barbie dolls and such. On the other hand, I've seen quite a few things like tools made in the USA. I'm guessing it's because tools like screwdrivers aren't as labor intense to make as stuff like toys and clothing. Is that sort of the norm? I've watched episodes of How It's Made and this seems pretty much the norm to me.
Besides labor, a huge factor which explains why clothes, towels, toys, but not tools, is how well does the product nest. A 40" container will often cost in excess of $10k China-inland US plant or distribution center with ground transport, duties, offloading, etc. When a product nests well, it may mean the cost to transport is $12k/100,000 units or $.12 each. When it does not, it may be $12k/10,000 units or $1.20 per unit to transport.
In case one, if the labor sevings exceed $.12 unit, making it in China is likely. In case 2, the savings need to exceed $1.20 per unit simply to be considered.
I know of a tumbler made locally that would be in China were it not for ridges designed into it, which greatly reduced the ability to pack the required units in a container in order to have Chinese labor savings exceed the cost to transport. Add in the fact a robot packs them in the USA, and it was possible to bring that here (it started in China before volume built).
Bob you know what I agree with you. About less then 50% working and produce everything we need. But we disagree here free trade and this race to the bottom helps nothing. We make all these free trade deals and all these jobs are going to be created. But funny thing is it never works out that way. More often then not that industry ends up gutted. And millions end up out work and we get to buy the good we use to make from someone overseas. You know what we heading to that 50% mark anyways. Our labor rate is down to 63.6% . It has been falling for many years so we will get to 50% soon enough. Technology and offshoring of jobs we will have less need for labor not more. And of the 50% still working most likely 20% of those will be underemployed. We still will have the population just not the jobs. I doubt everybody is going to be super cool with 50% of the population not working. At some point we will see social unrest.
Besides labor, a huge factor which explains why clothes, towels, toys, but not tools, is how well does the product nest. A 40" container will often cost in excess of $10k China-inland US plant or distribution center with ground transport, duties, offloading, etc. When a product nests well, it may mean the cost to transport is $12k/100,000 units or $.12 each. When it does not, it may be $12k/10,000 units or $1.20 per unit to transport.
In case one, if the labor sevings exceed $.12 unit, making it in China is likely. In case 2, the savings need to exceed $1.20 per unit simply to be considered.
I know of a tumbler made locally that would be in China were it not for ridges designed into it, which greatly reduced the ability to pack the required units in a container in order to have Chinese labor savings exceed the cost to transport. Add in the fact a robot packs them in the USA, and it was possible to bring that here (it started in China before volume built).
I think you hit the nail dead on the head with this one. I think unions do need to be more accountable to their members but I still think they will have a place in the future. It's not surprising that most of the unionized EU countries and Japan and countries in a similar boat aren't intimidated by China or Indonesia as far as manufacturing goes. Personally, I think that each seperate set of countries seem to have their own specialties as far as high quality products go.
USA/Canada - Raw materials and food products
Japan/South Korea/Taiwan - Electronics and video games
European Nations - industrial tools and the like
This is just my experience, maybe you and others have had different experiences. CHinese made products overall have not been good to me. I bought a paper shredder from Target once for $9 and it worked twice before it jammed up permanently. I remember getting so mad that I went outside and pummelled it with a baseball bat (made in USA haha) and went to Best BUy and bought a better shredder (still made in China but at least works better than the $9 one). No hatred towards Target but I can understand how they make their money and why people hate on them and Wallyworld and the like. For the record, most retail is nothing but cheap **** made in China. Perhaps not so coincidentally most retail is non-union just like most manufacturing in China. I guess birds of a feather will flock together.
One thing I have noticed is that a lot of the products made in China are typically ones that require a lot of physical labor to make. Clothing is one good example; a lot of this is outsourced to China and Indonesia. Toys are another example, like the Barbie dolls and such. On the other hand, I've seen quite a few things like tools made in the USA. I'm guessing it's because tools like screwdrivers aren't as labor intense to make as stuff like toys and clothing. Is that sort of the norm? I've watched episodes of How It's Made and this seems pretty much the norm to me.
The U.S.A used to specialize in industrial and home tools. We have lost a lot of ground over the past thirty years. Many of the once well regarded names such as Dewalt, Black and Decker and Stanley have really turned to garbage though. These companies no longer stand for quality, as they have chased the value shoppers, while destroying their once proud heritage. Of course, these iconic brands were always manufactured in America, but no longer I'm afraid. Craftsman is still an old standby that represents quality, and I really hope they survive the inevitable bankruptcy of Sears. They are the only reason I still shop at Sears anymore. Bought a set of drills 2 years ago for $100. Use them in the shop every week. Have not broken one, and the drills never walk. They have worked just as well as my my $250 set of Twist Precession drills, which are more suited for industrial applications, and priced accordingly.
I always love hitting garage sales for the 30 year old, made in America hand tools. Those were tools you could sure set your watch to. It's amazing how awful vice grips of today compare to those manufactured in the past. Bought a set for $10 at Home Depot a few years back. The rubber handles fell off in 2 days. Dipped them in hot rubber and the damn things broke in a week. Complete garbage, which is exactly where they ended up. Give me an old rusty set of vice grips any day, back when we used to know how to design and manufacture tools. I like how this trade deal works out. We give China our money, and they send us their garbage I gotta take out the trash tonight, any takers
At any rate, most of the places I have worked for have moved heavily away from U.S. tools. Carbide inserts usually come from Sandvich, which is based in Sweden, as well as P Horn which is based in Germany. Kennametal is still around in America, but their quality has really deteriorated, while their price has increased. Most places don't bother with them anymore. The Japanese have also moved in on the measuring equipment side. Mitutoyo has some of the most comfortable, practical and reliable equipment out there. They feel right when you hold them, while Sterrett, based in America, has not made any improvements in 50 years. They still use the same old design, which was fine 50 years ago. Compared to the competition today though, they just haven't stepped up their game. Another 20 years, and I don't think they will be around. Sad, they are another iconic name.
Unlike "than", we can produce everything we need with no more than 50% of the population working. What is your advice for 80 million of 160 million workforce not working, Einstein?
We need a diversified economy, where we are doing many things. We are still the number #1 manufacturing power which is good, and yes, we can do it with less. Relative to years back, these jobs still require quite a bit of skill. Not like people cranking handles tirelessly. More like one worker monitoring 4-5 machines, checking 10 dimensions per part every 30 minutes with various measuring devices, identifying signs of tool wear and replacing tools before they chip out and destroy the other 15 VERY expensive tools in the machine...
There is a lot more to those simply button smashing jobs that management never seems to take into account. You get a half wit in a job like that, and you must deal with the potential loss of $1000's of dollars of tooling per machine, a visit from the $500/hr service tech, thousands of botched parts that the operator failed to notice, or compensate for in the computer... Your labor matrix goes out the window when you take that into account. Yes, they are worth every penny if they are getting $18/hr, because they save the boss a whole lot more. These are the manufacturing jobs that are being created today, and yes, you have to pay a decent wage if you want your business to make a profit or see next year.
I just wonder what we are going to win in this race to bottom. I am no huge fan of unions but they have their place. Most of the rights will have are because of unions. People fought died went to jail just so we would have some rights. Things are heading down a dark path workers are losing their rights again. It is happening slowly but it is happening. In another 15 or 20 years we may see unrest again. When vast numbers of the population will not able be able to support themselves their will be push back. Wages will keep falling for most people as the cost of living goes up. Something will give at some point.
Unlike "than", we can produce everything we need with no more than 50% of the population working. What is your advice for 80 million of 160 million workforce not working, Einstein?
63 percent of the population is working now, and we are still a net importer by a large margin.
We probably employ more Chinese making stuff bound for the US, then the entire US population put together.
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I gotta take out the trash tonight, any takers 
