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If they were able to get those high paying jobs, they'd be able to get it even if the lower paying jobs were available. Offshoring just takes away jobs from the total.
There are many jobs that suck. These jobs suck so bad, that we should probably be thankful that other, less fortunate people are willing to perform the duties of the job. Sometimes, these jobs destroy communities and the environment for the locals. There are many jobs that just plain suck, and no American would want to do them, period.
American corporations tend to offshore these crappy jobs, allowing Americans to do the easier and higher paying jobs. Does anyone really have a problem with this?
I don't thinks bad jobs, just bad pay. You look at sanitation, postal service, and many govt jobs that pay $75k+ there are exams and long lines of people applying for those. They are boring but people want them for the pay and stability. Then there are corporate jobs that pay $75k+ and they can't fill them because there's no stability and long hours.
It's about overall job quality and stability that Americans want rather than just a good salary.
Truck drivers are in demand, they can easily make $100-120k a year driving trucks and having a hard time finding people. Apparently nobody likes to sit in a truck for 10-15 hrs a day.
It is a dense belief or excuse of the free trade agreement to get rid of jobs and have everyone go back to school and get a different job which are disappearing to other nations making America and even other former rich nations become poor , and then the government looses the income tax and the exercise taxes on goods and then it has to raise taxes for a larger welfare state we are now growing in to
Lesssee...attitudes like yours go back decades or centuries. Europeans brought endentured servants with them to do the menial labor they performed back in the old country. They then had slaves to work the fields. The wealthy have always thought certain jobs were beneath their station in life so those jobs were left to those who were thought of as base or lower class; lots of time to poor whites. When the white lower class got on the first rung they too thought certain jobs were beneath them. The Chinese laid the railroad tracks across the mountains to the west coast.
Fast forward a century. Whites thought certain jobs were beneath them so they were left to blacks. Fast forward to today. Blacks are leaving those same jobs to Hispanic immigrants, legal as well as illegal. Don't believe it? Who are your typical gardeners, lawn mowers and day laborers? Maids and office cleaners? They were black 30 but years ago; they are Hispanics today. Got to a Home Depot and look around the parking lot to see those who wait for someone needing day laborers.
The American jobs you should be concerned with are true manufacturing jobs in plants and factories which made the USA the #1 country in the world. Real Americans want those jobs. What glorified sanctimonious job is it you perform which is worthy of a lofty pedestal? Have you ever done manual labor to afford food and lodging?.
It sounds as if you should to appreciate what you have.
Manufacturing jobs are not inherently bad jobs. Most Americans do not wish to work in a factory any longer though. The environment is often filthy and is not climate controlled, the work is often repetitive and boring. Factories have high turn over rates for these reasons and more. When they cannot fully staff their plants, they are forced to go elsewhere. And when they are run like crap, they are closed down, as they should be.
America should be concerned about educating it's citizens and getting it's crap together again. Successful factories are not operated and staffed by dummies.
Quote:
Originally Posted by vision33r
I don't thinks bad jobs, just bad pay. You look at sanitation, postal service, and many govt jobs that pay $75k+ there are exams and long lines of people applying for those. They are boring but people want them for the pay and stability. Then there are corporate jobs that pay $75k+ and they can't fill them because there's no stability and long hours.
It's about overall job quality and stability that Americans want rather than just a good salary.
Truck drivers are in demand, they can easily make $100-120k a year driving trucks and having a hard time finding people. Apparently nobody likes to sit in a truck for 10-15 hrs a day.
American workers deserve higher pay, not longer hours. Particularly truck drivers and other blue collar workers. These people do jobs that many Americans do not want to do. Much of the reason why has to do with poor compensation.
Quote:
Originally Posted by hljc
It is a dense belief or excuse of the free trade agreement to get rid of jobs and have everyone go back to school and get a different job which are disappearing to other nations making America and even other former rich nations become poor , and then the government looses the income tax and the exercise taxes on goods and then it has to raise taxes for a larger welfare state we are now growing in to
Are you serious? We need jobs in America because we all have to earn money to pay the bills. Fewer jobs means fewer people have a job, even if they are crappy.
But we don't need every job here. Get it???
Quote:
Originally Posted by Disgustedman
As I stated that was the chemicals. Not the jobs.
Do you want a chemical plant in your back yard? You can't ship the plant away and retain the jobs at the same time.
And I don't have any problem with the chemical industry, so long as it is well regulated and maintained properly.
Quote:
Originally Posted by pvande55
There used to be more jobs that paid well and had good benefits. They may have been crappy jobs, but they were pretty good for those with low education. What's more the existence of such jobs caused such low pay jobs such as retail and fast food to improve pay and benefits so as not to lose employees. If only we could get back to when workers, not jobs, were scarce and coveted. Many of our nation's problems would be alleviated.
US corporations and government have been working hard to put America's best days behind. Now we enjoying the fruit of their labor.
Want to fix something? Fix the infrastructure. Make this country an appealing and practical place to conduct business in.
Last edited by Poncho_NM; 11-17-2015 at 08:57 AM..
Reason: One of the quotes was edited out, the post was deleted.
The purpose of corporations is to give citizens the opportunity to share in the benefits of capitalism by being able to pool together resources (their capital) to establish, build and maintain a business that individuals could not establish, build and maintain using just their own personal resources.
Quote:
Originally Posted by armory
You are defining collectivism throughout your post.
No. I'm outlining the purpose of corporations. If you don't know at least that much, then I'm not sure anything else you opine about corporations has much credibility.
Collectivism, incidentally, in the manner in generally used in general parlance these days, pertains to the ownership of the means of production in society equally by all citizens. Contrast that with corporations, which are owned only by citizens who invest, and their ownership interest is related to how much capital they invested.
Quote:
Originally Posted by armory
A corporation is a business a person invested in to make money.
Again, false. The Children's Television Workshop is a corporation. Its corporate charter is not "to make profit". While most corporations are chartered to make profit, [a] not all are, and [b] that's not the "purpose of corporations".
Quote:
Originally Posted by armory
How exactly does a corporation "fail to satisfy their purpose for every citizen who does not have the opportunity to share in the benefits of capitalism"?
You're not reading what you're replying to very carefully. I wrote, "Corporations actually fail to satisfy their purpose..." You changed that to "a corporation". You're working very hard to apply tunnel vision and see everything from the perspective of one individual investor in one specific corporation. You'll never understand what people are saying about corporations if you blind yourself by thinking that way.
So please go back and reread what I wrote, working to understand it as written: "Corporations actually fail to satisfy their purpose for every citizen who does not have the opportunity to share in the benefits of capitalism (because they are paid less than a living wage)." Again: The purpose of corporations is to give citizens the opportunity to share in the benefits of capitalism by being able to pool together resources (their capital) to establish, build and maintain a business that individuals could not establish, build and maintain using just their own personal resources. That way, society was no longer a "Lord and serf" situation, which your comments revealed is your preferred state.
Quote:
Originally Posted by armory
You are quoting from Lenin, Stalin and Marx.
I'm quoting from history and an informed knowledge about what corporations are actually for in a capitalist society. It was really unfortunate that you doubled down so much on your ignorance of such things in your posting. It's especially disappointing to think that your ignorance of such things is indicative of a wholesale breakdown of our educational system, or some kind of brainwashing being executed by anti-social reactionaries in society. The rest of your tirade was more of the same, effectively railing against a fair and just society, advocating for a reversion to Medieval feudalism.
There are many jobs that suck. These jobs suck so bad, that we should probably be thankful that other, less fortunate people are willing to perform the duties of the job. Sometimes, these jobs destroy communities and the environment for the locals. There are many jobs that just plain suck, and no American would want to do them, period.
American corporations tend to offshore these crappy jobs, allowing Americans to do the easier and higher paying jobs. Does anyone really have a problem with this?
Americans are not protective of american jobs unless it's their job! They really could care less about anyone else's job being shipped overseas so long as they have their job. Sure they talk the big "made in USA" speech but truth is, most really never give it any thought except when they wave the flag on the fourth of july. The notion that many americans actually care about american jobs is a myth; it's nothing but a sad attempt by lazy american workers to feel good about themselves.
The OP is on my ignore list, and for good reason, but this one was such a derp troll thread, I had to respond. To the OP, if you don't understand why people would protect jobs that allow them to get paid and, you know, LIVE and stuff, than nobody can help you.
Rabrrita: You're right on the money. I've lost track of the number of Just World Fallacy spouting lunatics out there who are practically aroused when somebody else gets laid off, or when "those useless government workers" get furloughed, or when the local plant "full of good for nothin's" closes, or whatever. The sheer number of nasty, petty sociopaths in this nation who get their jollies out of watching harm come to others just so they can feel self righteous in their own (fleeting and temporary) security is sickening.
Too many Americans will eagerly vote their fellow citizens and neighbors into the poor house if they can find some petty little excuse for them to "deserve it." And, not surprisingly, the powers that be have used this nasty, self-righteous hatred as a way to manipulate the people and turn them against each other even as the elite make off with all the stolen wealth and jobs. Unfortunately, too many people are too stupid to care. So long as they've got theirs, to h*ck with everyone else.
Too many Americans will eagerly vote their fellow citizens and neighbors into the poor house if they can find some petty little excuse for them to "deserve it." And, not surprisingly, the powers that be have used this nasty, self-righteous hatred as a way to manipulate the people and turn them against each other even as the elite make off with all the stolen wealth and jobs. Unfortunately, too many people are too stupid to care. So long as they've got theirs, to h*ck with everyone else.
Jobs cannot be stolen, as they belong to the corp who created them, not the present staff.
Too many Americans will eagerly vote their fellow citizens and neighbors into the poor house if they can find some petty little excuse for them to "deserve it." And, not surprisingly, the powers that be have used this nasty, self-righteous hatred as a way to manipulate the people and turn them against each other even as the elite make off with all the stolen wealth and jobs. Unfortunately, too many people are too stupid to care. So long as they've got theirs, to h*ck with everyone else.
It's very unfortunate. 350 years of history showing a steady climb out of the muck is now under attack by self-serving, self-centered brinksters, grounding their rationalization for egoistic behavior in how it is ratified by the loud, anti-social, exploitation-glorifying cabal working to undo not just decades, but if they have their druthers, centuries of progress. Maybe they figure that, if it weren't for this annoying American Revolution, they'd be sitting as a colonial peer in the House of Lords, which perhaps would still have substantive power over the empire. Whatever delusions they use to justify in their own minds the manipulative campaign to make sure 1996 was the absolute pinnacle of American society before the decline back into a society where the have's had increasingly unfettered access to abuse their economic power to disproportionately exploit what the nation has to offer to its citizens. The labor economy has become the battleground, and if we don't find a way back to where we were heading in 1996, it'll reform back into a killing field, the weapon of choice: poverty.
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