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Old 11-19-2017, 08:16 PM
 
34,089 posts, read 17,145,875 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by freemkt View Post
Just like someone has to house those low-wage workers?
No employer pays to house their workers. Each pays their local Fair Market Value by position. The employee also determines what their FMV is. When both agree to a wage level, the employee accepts an offer to be hired.

Housing himself or herself is completely independent of employment.
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Old 11-19-2017, 08:24 PM
 
37,315 posts, read 59,943,115 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BobNJ1960 View Post
No employer pays to house their workers. Each pays their local Fair Market Value by position. The employee also determines what their FMV is. When both agree to a wage level, the employee accepts an offer to be hired.

Housing himself or herself is completely independent of employment.
You don't know how some of the labor market works--
There are places that hire H2b visa workers and house them in dorms and count that as part of their employment package---
Field workers in some states--hotels/resorts can do that--nannies or live-in nurses--

And there are many, many times where the employer is the one who sets the wage--alone--
Take it or leave it is the response if the worker tries to get an uptick...or better hours or conditions...

Taking unions out of the workforce evacuated much of the bargaining power of workers
Using contract workers also took power away from the individual worker who know s/he has a ticking time bomb starting the day the job starts...
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Old 11-19-2017, 08:25 PM
 
34,089 posts, read 17,145,875 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by loves2read View Post
You don't know how some of the labor market works--
There are places that hire H2b visa workers and house them in dorms and count that as part of their employment package---
Field workers in some states--hotels/resorts can do that--nannies or live-in nurses--

...
The above is a tiny fragment of US employment.

I am talking mainstream US employment.
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Old 11-19-2017, 08:37 PM
 
37,315 posts, read 59,943,115 times
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You just don't want to admit that there ARE employers who are totally autonomous regarding setting wages and those taking the jobs have no bargaining power--
Construction jobs in many parts of the country use day-labor drop points
Not just here but in other countries as well
No benefits, cash pay, few protections on the job--

And there are thousands and thousands of migrant workers who live in camps where the employer/company controls most aspects of their work/living conditions--
Check out some of the stories about poultry/slaughter plants and carpet plants

Check out the stories about Amazon warehouse workers who travel around the country--many are seniors trying to eak out enough money to supplement SS--
There are plenty of people working in the US who have no power to "engage" with the employer and negotiate a fair wage...
They may be a "hidden" part of the US workforce but they are working day in and day out to put food on the table and take care of themselves and their families
And they rarely have the leverage to do anything to improve their job conditions or get more money unless the employer is forced because of special circumstances to advance the workers' cause...like state laws to raise minimum wages...
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Old 11-19-2017, 08:53 PM
 
18,561 posts, read 7,393,516 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BobNJ1960 View Post
Service industry wages, in aggregate, are putrid relative to the tens of millions of manufacturing job wages we have lost the last quarter century

This will result in a lower QOL for a substantial portion of the US population.
Particularly the people being cared for by low-wage workers.

11alive.com | Hidden camera tells true story of how veteran died after calling for help, gasping for air
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Old 11-19-2017, 08:53 PM
 
34,089 posts, read 17,145,875 times
Reputation: 17240
Quote:
Originally Posted by loves2read View Post
You just don't want to admit that there ARE employers who are totally autonomous regarding setting wages and those taking the jobs have no bargaining power--
Construction jobs in many parts of the country use day-labor drop points
Not just here but in other countries as well
No benefits, cash pay, few protections on the job--
...
Naturally it occurs when there is no demonstrable, qualitative difference in employees. Or as I often call them McJobs.

I remember doing them for about 4 months as a 17 year old.

Now there are many well paying construction jobs which are staffed on a permanent basis. Day labor is only used for the lower skilled stuff in that trade, or the jobs where the customer cares less about quality and more about price.

Employees today need to focus on constantly upgrading their skill sets, to avoid seeking McJobs.
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Old 11-20-2017, 03:16 AM
 
3,739 posts, read 4,639,855 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BobNJ1960 View Post

Employees today need to focus on constantly upgrading their skill sets, to avoid seeking McJobs.
Good idea. Get a bachelors degree or higher to be a data entry clerk or file clerk or any type of job for that matter. Go back to school just to "see" if extra education/skills will land a job. Then only to come out and find that you need X amount of years experience to get said job and the pay is peanuts. So much for upgrading

Upgrade all you want, but if you don't have the years experience, you are up the creek without a paddle.
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Old 11-20-2017, 04:38 AM
 
901 posts, read 748,400 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BobNJ1960 View Post
Naturally it occurs when there is no demonstrable, qualitative difference in employees. Or as I often call them McJobs.

I remember doing them for about 4 months as a 17 year old.

Now there are many well paying construction jobs which are staffed on a permanent basis. Day labor is only used for the lower skilled stuff in that trade, or the jobs where the customer cares less about quality and more about price.

Employees today need to focus on constantly upgrading their skill sets, to avoid seeking McJobs.
Nah, constantly complaining and wasting valuable time online will surely lead them to success.
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Old 11-20-2017, 05:34 AM
 
50,945 posts, read 36,629,320 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2nd trick op View Post
When the issue approaches the primal, (that is, meeting the basic needs of someone close to you and in failing health due mostly to advancing age) family has been the traditional answer for many of us. But that option is going to be less sustainable in the "society of strangers" into which we seem determined to devolve. The people of simpler means, patients and caregivers alike, are the most prominent casualties.

It's all just one more facet; one more ugly and dangerous side effect of the non-sustainability and slow deterioration of the North American economic dominance post-World War II; re-orienting our economy to deal with it is an obvious political non-starter, so as with the health-care mess in general, the situation can only continue to deteriorate.
That option is less sustainable due to economic changes. Women used to be at home, they could care for the elderly. I on the other hand live in a one bedroom apartment and work full time, so my mom is in assisted living. It's not a choice for me to decide if I can quit my job to care for her, it's not and I can't.
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Old 11-20-2017, 05:51 AM
 
34,089 posts, read 17,145,875 times
Reputation: 17240
Quote:
Originally Posted by hopefulone View Post
Good idea. Get a bachelors degree or higher to be a data entry clerk or file clerk or any type of job for that matter. Go back to school just to "see" if extra education/skills will land a job. Then only to come out and find that you need X amount of years experience to get said job and the pay is peanuts. So much for upgrading

Upgrade all you want, but if you don't have the years experience, you are up the creek without a paddle.
That is why smart kids intern while in college. My godson at 27, twice promoted, works for a corp with many like him, who interned. By the time he is 40, he would end up promoted several more times, as will many colleagues around the same age.

Picked majors that have great outlooks, schools that are atop that field, plus worked as interns to gain invaluable experience. These employees entered market by 25 with MBAs plus work experience in college.

Right now, he is home (where he grew up) on 10 day vacation, and his employer paid for the trip as part of his relocation package to hq. Many at the corp, including him, are looking at salaries in the hundreds of thousands within a few years. I had no idea that was peanuts. (sar)
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