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Old 08-10-2021, 10:26 AM
 
Location: U.S.A., Earth
5,511 posts, read 4,479,264 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GSPNative View Post
If Democrats and big business didn't flood the US with unskilled labor via mass immigration, then the minimum wage, as set by the marketplace, may well be $15 (or higher).

(That's what it was in the 1960s, more or less, before the tidal wave of unskilled mass immigration began. And some other upper-income countries have minimum wages that high.)


So why do people think that they're worth $15/hour? Because they forget that government screwed them over and forced them into poverty by flooding the marketplace with their competitors, who drive down wages. Or maybe they hope that government will come to its senses and, for once, start caring about US citizens who work.
There are H1 visas, but some of the work is also farm work that Americans haven't done in a long time.
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Old 08-10-2021, 01:23 PM
 
8,299 posts, read 3,816,223 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ackmondual View Post
There are H1 visas, but some of the work is also farm work that Americans haven't done in a long time.
Also a lot of seasonal visas that Trump massively increased for summer and winter work. Largely in areas of tourism working at beaches, boardwalks, hotels, etc.. I don't see the point of reducing high skill worker visas but massively increasing low skilled visas like Trump did. It doesn't help wages at the lower end.
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Old 08-10-2021, 01:25 PM
 
Location: Pittsburgh
6,782 posts, read 9,600,221 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TexasLawyer2000 View Post
Also a lot of seasonal visas that Trump massively increased for summer and winter work. Largely in areas of tourism working at beaches, boardwalks, hotels, etc.. I don't see the point of reducing high skill worker visas but massively increasing low skilled visas like Trump did. It doesn't help wages at the lower end.

I'm sure that it had nothing to do with him owning hotels.
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Old 08-10-2021, 01:41 PM
 
1,955 posts, read 1,761,672 times
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A person is worth everything to their loved ones.

A person's labor is worth what someone else is willing to pay for it. Period.

If I want to do a particular job for you for $15, say cut your hair, and you are not willing to pay $15 for me to cut your hair, then I don't get to cut your hair and I don't get $15.

If I then force you to let me cut your hair, and force you to pay me $15 for it, even though you didn't want it... well that's a crime. Assault and burglary, right?

Why is it different if it's the government forcing you to get a haircut and pay out $15 for it? Or are you saying the government isn't forcing you to get a haircut, only forcing you to pay $15 if you do get one. Well, that's fine, but be prepared for the fact that there will be plenty of people who won't want a haircut.

Nobody has the right to "force someone else" to pay them. Just like nobody has the right to "force someone else" to provide them healthcare. That's slavery. And it's wrong.
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Old 08-10-2021, 10:22 PM
 
2,309 posts, read 3,852,429 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pkbab5 View Post
A person is worth everything to their loved ones.

A person's labor is worth what someone else is willing to pay for it. Period.

If I want to do a particular job for you for $15, say cut your hair, and you are not willing to pay $15 for me to cut your hair, then I don't get to cut your hair and I don't get $15.

If I then force you to let me cut your hair, and force you to pay me $15 for it, even though you didn't want it... well that's a crime. Assault and burglary, right?

Why is it different if it's the government forcing you to get a haircut and pay out $15 for it? Or are you saying the government isn't forcing you to get a haircut, only forcing you to pay $15 if you do get one. Well, that's fine, but be prepared for the fact that there will be plenty of people who won't want a haircut.

Nobody has the right to "force someone else" to pay them. Just like nobody has the right to "force someone else" to provide them healthcare. That's slavery. And it's wrong.
Not sure I'd say that compares to actual enslavement. Maybe the concept of being forced yes, but being told as a business owner you have to provide your employees with healthcare is probably better than being actually shackled and beaten. Just saying.

On the healthcare note, the real "slavery" is if I want to stay alive I have to do whatever it takes to keep my job. We've become shackled to our jobs / careers because we know that if we quit we could in fact die. I realize that's exaggerating just a lil bit. Say what you want but to me there's a moral issue at stake there IMO. This is just me but I have no personal issue with giving up some income so that someone else could have the opportunity to well not die.

And labor is the activity you are performing. Your value is what you mean to that particular profession, job, career, company, etc.... My labor is what I'm doing professionally. What my pay check indicates is my value or what society deems is my value to itself.
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Old 08-14-2021, 06:00 AM
 
18,549 posts, read 15,596,590 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Just hanging out View Post
I agree, I think rent is very much a problem. I would be in favor of keeping wages the same while also cutting rent to a reasonable price. For example, $1500 a month for a 1BR is out of control. And good for you that you are still in the same industry and brave it through the elements.. Not too many people around my area who think that way.they would want a huge raise for having to get wet. LOL
The problem with this is that setting a cap on rental rates would lead to a shortage of housing available for rent.
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Old 08-14-2021, 09:33 AM
 
Location: Pittsburgh
29,747 posts, read 34,409,851 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ackmondual View Post
There are H1 visas, but some of the work is also farm work that Americans haven't done in a long time.
Some of the increase in food prices is a result of visa for migrant workers being frozen. Farms and meat packing facilities cannot find the kind of labor they did pre-pandemic, and American workers do not want to do this work.
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