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You don't know much about robots, do you? OR the business of making pizzas, stocking shelves, or checking people out as a cashier.
That's an easy answer. Because in 1973, people were able to work a job that helped to support them AND pay for their college costs. What minimum wage job begins to touch the cost of a college education today? And believe me, if you want a decent job, you need a college education. Even if that college education isn't going to be needed for that particular job.
I'm sorry, people aren't entitled to live a decent job, be able to afford to put a roof over their head or food on the table? What terrorist country did you come from? And if no one is entitled to anything, then why does everyone think the rich are entitled to so much, even if they did nothing to earn their money?
And please tell me, exactly, how these people who can't even afford to put food on the table working a full time minimum wage job, are supposed to be able to afford to get the skills to move them upward? Haven't you figured it out yet? If you can afford college these days so you can make more money, you're already making so much money you don't need college.
Maybe YOU can tell me how people are supposed to pay for this magical education.
Propaganda? Hell, I LIVED during those times. I was making TWO DOLLARS AN HOUR and was still able to afford a one bedroom apartment, pay the bills, buy food, put money in a checking account and totally support myself. Don't you tell me it was propaganda.
As a matter of fact, when you get the ratio of what I paid for that apartment and what I was paid for minimum wage and apply it to today, you'd have to pay more than $20/hr to get the same ratio.
Take a look at those prices on that McDonald's board. That Quarter Pounder with cheese cost 35% of a $2 minimum wage in the 70s. If a $5 Quarter Pounder with cheese today cost 35% of our minimum wage, that wage would have to be $14.28. The current 2017 minimum wage is $7.25 an hour. That Quarter Pounder with cheese cost 69% of the minimum wage today. And we won't even talk about what rent costs.
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What a lot of people here are forgetting is that the extra money given to minimum wage employees doesn't just vanish into the air. It gets spent, on doctors and dentists and grocery stores and businesses all around the community. We're a capitalistic society, so we NEED to spend money to survive as one. The extra taxes also help our communities. Don't believe me? Just go into any small town where the majority of people have depressed wages and take a look at their infrastructure.
The money has to flow, just like we have to breathe. When we quit breathing, we die. When our money flow starts shutting down in the US, the country starts to die. As you've all seen happening.
This post should be required reading in every school, governmental office, and boardroom in the USA.
I haven't seen anyone paying the bare minimum wage ($7.25 an hour here) in a long time. Even fast food in my area will start you out at $12-$13 an hour, because they cannot even get the teenagers out of bed to work for minimum wage. Hobby Lobby has a sign posted up on the door offering $15 to start. This is not even a high COL area.
This is the free market at work dictating wages. If the local Amazon warehouse offers $15 to start, why work at McDick's for minimum wage? The manager at McDick's has to compete for talent, and will have to pay accordingly.
I'm curious.
If minimum wage was raised by $5 (which is about 50% what it is now), what about all those who are making $15 an hour now with college degrees in entry level specialized positions? They won't get a $7.50/hour raise. They will be making the same as those in positions that do not require special skills or education. Is this fair?
You're setting up a lot of sub-conditions if you're going to say that making $10 or whatever an hour is "fair", but then decry "think of the poor people making just above MW" [cue that Simpsons meme] is NOT fair. I'm sorry, but if your response to the MW was "you should've bettered yourself", then my response to them is "if you worked hard and your claim to fame was making SLIGHTLY above MW, then you yourself did something wrong, and YOU should've also 'bettered' yourself"
Quote:
Originally Posted by Just hanging out
I'm very open to hearing differing opinions without getting into an argument.
What do you think YOU'RE worth?
I'd like this to be an open discussion with no attacks or party-blaming (dems/reps)
In the current economy at about $9-10 an hour as minimum wage, I'd say I'm probably worth $21 an hour.. With a specialized masters and a license to practice therapy. Second year out of school.
My other thoughts...
One quote hits home about this... People aren't paid what they deserve. They're paid what they can negotiate
I highly doubt the CEOs who make 500x the salary of the common employee are worth that, but that's what they are able to negotiate. Ditto with [insert Hollywood star] who's making 7 to 8 figures per movie. Or [sit com star] who gets $1 million per episode.
Me.. I'm STILL amused how someone working in MW at say a department store can double or triple his hourly wage by working in front of a computer. It doesn't even need to be anything technical like software programming, tech documents, or legal documents. Just doing mundane stuff like in Microsoft Word, Excel, or Powerpoint can alone warrant that bump in pay. And yes, this sort of transformation has happened to me.
I'm also wary when businesses claim if they raise MW, then all other costs will need to too. I am sympathetic to businesses, but history has shown they've adapted. History has also shown they are ALL about making profits, and they will lie and use whatever deception they can to maximize those profits.
I DON'T CARE HOW THIS MONEY COMES ABOUT, but I'd like to see the lower class get more spending money. THEY are the ones who buy essentials, and when they have more money, they'll even delve into some luxuries like eating out, and buying a few products that aren't essential, but still nice to have. The rich don't need anymore bailouts. I'd be happy to pay higher taxes knowing it's helping those less fortunate than myself.
Also, I doubt there are enough "good jobs" to support everybody who'd like them, which is why you're ALWAYS going to have even adults working MW jobs. The line "those were meant for teenagers" was a relic of the past.
And when your pizza gets done wrong, who are you going to talk to about it? When I was stocking shelves, it took about 3 hours a week. The rest of the time I cashiered, did bookkeeping, cleaned the store, and ordered those supplies that were to be stocked when they came in.
I have yet to see a machine be able to stock milk by the expiration date.
So since I was already doing all those things and doing them well, would you please explain to me why any manager or owner would spend the money on a machine that could stock my groceries just to save them the cost of paying me for 3 hours a week? How much do you think those machines cost anyway? They're not free, you know.
Ohhh, and while we're on the subject of self checkout, read these and tell me you don't need people cashiering or helping on the self checkout:
I don't think fast food jobs are worth $15 an hour.
If an employer is only going to pay minimum wage, he should only expect minimum work, and you should only expect minimum service. That's how it works. Don't complain then, when a minimum wage worker doesn't go the extra mile for you. There's no incentive for him to do so.
If an employer is only going to pay minimum wage, he should only expect minimum work, and you should only expect minimum service. That's how it works. Don't complain then, when a minimum wage worker doesn't go the extra mile for you. There's no incentive for him to do so.
The thing is that, in most cases, a person takes a job at minimum wage because they cannot get a better one. The reason they cannot get a better one is because their best performance doesn't merit any more money. So in this case (which is most cases) an employee getting paid minimum wage is expected to earn their pay by performing the best they can (which, again, unfortunately, is only worth minimum wage).
Alternatively, someone who is worth more than minimum wage can take a minimum wage job and get away with working less than their best performance... but that's not common.
Also, an individuals maximum performance may be worth different wages in different markets.
I'm curious.
If minimum wage was raised by $5 (which is about 50% what it is now), what about all those who are making $15 an hour now with college degrees in entry level specialized positions? They won't get a $7.50/hour raise. They will be making the same as those in positions that do not require special skills or education. Is this fair?
I'm very open to hearing differing opinions without getting into an argument.
What do you think YOU'RE worth?
I'd like this to be an open discussion with no attacks or party-blaming (dems/reps)
In the current economy at about $9-10 an hour as minimum wage, I'd say I'm probably worth $21 an hour.. With a specialized masters and a license to practice therapy. Second year out of school.
This is sad to read you think you are worth 21 an hour. There are illegal immigrants standing in front of many home depots in various cities and plenty get 20 per hour for simple painting or gardening. I am aware plenty in LA,CA make 20 an hour and their pay structure is very screwed up there due to all the illegals that do work under the table in offices. I hoped it was better in other cities.
Every person is worth a living wage when it comes to a paycheck at the very minimum. Period. So when we tell low wage workers that their job doesn't entitle them to a living wage or whatever dollar amount we put on what constitutes a living wage, we're not telling those people that the job isn't that important. We're telling them that they, as people, as American citizens, aren't important.
Somebody is always going to have to make pizzas, stock shelves, and check us out when we buy something. Quit assuming they deserve to live in poverty simply because we - not they - don't value their jobs.
What a bunch of baloney.
Entrepreneurs and business owners will not risk resources if they can't make a good profit. It's simply not worth their time and effort. If their expenses go up then the price of their products go up. The very examples that you give for minimum wage employees (Fast food and retail clerks) will affect the poor and minimum wage earners first so it will just become a frustrating cycle. Once you violate the free market with synthetic wages it's the beginning of the end.
$15 now... and when that still doesn't get people their cell phones, fast food, tattoos, lottery tickets, alcohol, car, and entertainment (Yes. Those are luxuries; they are not cultural entitlements contrary to how we've been brainwashed.) they will demand more.
No, we're telling them if they want more money, they just need to develop skills that are in higher demand. There needs to be some motivation for this. Do their part to support the country's growth and we can provide things like welfare. Otherwise they can keep doing what they're doing, and take what the market is able to give them, because value doesn't come from thin air. And be thankful to even have a job.
The sad reality is that nobody is "entitled" to anything. Some people work harder than others, and some don't do anything. So yes, certain people's skills are worth more than others. We're not the same. That's just how it is.
Socialist ideals don't solve this problem. They lead to complacency and a point where the country cannot sustain itself.
Skilled people move to countries that will offer a meritocracy. This is why so many great people move here. A minimum wage that barely motivates people to do better cannot support this country. We already have enough debt.
They won't even train me to drive a forklift. I went to college for 5 years and now you're telling me it's my fault there aren't any decent jobs and nobody is willing to train me to do jack. The nerve of some people.
This country won't go anywhere without some level of socialism. You see, capitalism doesn't work as well as you right wingers think it does. It's not that efficient. Bernie Sanders is right.
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