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i think it's less about how little people are worth below $50/hr wages.
It would be far better (more stimulative) for all the lower wages to rise a bit with a corresponding lowering of people at the higher end of the pay scale.
$500k base pay and above and Bonuses over $500k should be cut/limited.
So your say'n "chop off the head"? "Limit potential"?
How about make all accountable? Those who perform succeed, those who don't will stay stagnant.
Can't climb a ladder with no effort or desire to reach the next step. Weaken the rungs on top of the ladder and who will want to climb up and take that risk?
Talk about raising the minimum wage upsets the same people who are aghast at the thought of capping bonuses (as in above and beyond the base income) to half a million or a million dollars per year. On the one hand, they think that people making poverty wages just need to try harder. On the other, the ones making more money than they or their children could ever spend should just continue to rake it in. Let's be honest: the guy making a million dollars per year isn't working 10 times harder than the guy making 100K/year, and he's certainly not working 40 times harder than the chump making 25K/year. If we based the system on actual effort expended, I think those making the big bucks would probably be horrified at who was making what type of money, despite their insistence that hard work is the key to wealth. (And I'm someone who doesn't work very hard but I bring in a large hourly income. I admit it; what I do comes easily to me and it's easy and not stressful. I wouldn't want to be paid in terms of effort expended... I probably wouldn't be able to keep the lights on.)
the guy making a million dollars per year isn't working 10 times harder than the guy making 100K/year
No, but he's producing 10 times as much or else no one would pay him 10 times as much. We're not all equal. A heart surgeon is worth more than a convenience store clerk. But you knew that. You just said you don't work very hard and you make good money.
Let's be honest: the guy making a million dollars per year isn't working 10 times harder than the guy making 100K/year, and he's certainly not working 40 times harder than the chump making 25K/year.
let's be honest, two workers at same place and same job, one of them gets paid more.... guess he was smart enough to ask for more money before starting the job
what does "work" have to do with how much you are paid? the pay is between you and the person paying you, and what you agree to do for that money
the person making a million dollars was smart enough to convince someone to pay him a million dollars...
Quote:
If we based the system on actual effort expended
this isn't how life works and you know it. stop trying to force something that doesn't exist. effort is only defined by what the outcome is, if you have to spend more time making something, you still end up with the same thing everyone else does. you just took longer, that doesn't mean you put in more effort
That’s my point. Many people think that the guy making $9/hr just isn’t working hard enough. “Maybe he should work 80 hours instead of 40.” “Maybe he needs to work harder so he can move up in pay.” People seem to think that effort and hard work are relevant to payscale when we are talking about the poor, but when someone points out that it doesn’t work that way for the rich, that’s a different story. “Hard work will get you far” is a nice fairytale and a good way to convince yourself that poor people just don’t deserve anything more than that, but it’s a lie. Sometimes hard work gets you a salary that makes you eligible for food stamps and dirty looks from people who don’t work as hard as you do but happen to make more money.
That’s my point. Many people think that the guy making $9/hr just isn’t working hard enough. “Maybe he should work 80 hours instead of 40.” “Maybe he needs to work harder so he can move up in pay.”
No. What people are saying is the $9/hr worker should work to get the skills, education, and experience to qualify for the next level of job and keep moving up. Trying to pole vault doesn't work.
That’s my point. Many people think that the guy making $9/hr just isn’t working hard enough. “Maybe he should work 80 hours instead of 40.” “Maybe he needs to work harder so he can move up in pay.” People seem to think that effort and hard work are relevant to payscale when we are talking about the poor, but when someone points out that it doesn’t work that way for the rich, that’s a different story. “Hard work will get you far” is a nice fairytale and a good way to convince yourself that poor people just don’t deserve anything more than that, but it’s a lie. Sometimes hard work gets you a salary that makes you eligible for food stamps and dirty looks from people who don’t work as hard as you do but happen to make more money.
It takes me probably 80 hours to do what some can do in 40. Hard work can be physical or mental.
Instead of complaining about my pay, I'm trying to upgrade.
If someone relies on MW to increase so they have what they need, they will be let down. Move yourself forward instead of asking for someone else to give you a ride or push you forward. We are in control and accountable for ourselves.
Location: East of Seattle since 1992, 615' Elevation, Zone 8b - originally from SF Bay Area
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AnotherTouchOfWhimsy
That’s my point. Many people think that the guy making $9/hr just isn’t working hard enough. “Maybe he should work 80 hours instead of 40.” “Maybe he needs to work harder so he can move up in pay.” People seem to think that effort and hard work are relevant to payscale when we are talking about the poor, but when someone points out that it doesn’t work that way for the rich, that’s a different story. “Hard work will get you far” is a nice fairytale and a good way to convince yourself that poor people just don’t deserve anything more than that, but it’s a lie. Sometimes hard work gets you a salary that makes you eligible for food stamps and dirty looks from people who don’t work as hard as you do but happen to make more money.
Pay is not based on how hard the work is, if that were the case hotel cleaning people and farm workers would be paid more than lawyers. Like everything else, it's supply and demand. There are many more people that can clean rooms or pick fruit with minimal training (or serve fast food) than can litigate in court. The jobs requiring specific skills will pay more. When those skills are hard to find, the pay goes up. That's why the best professional athletes make over $20 million/year, and the best tech workers are getting $300k.
[quote=Prickly Pear;50218329]I make just under $20/hr and I find that reasonable given age, skills and qualifications, but I cannot afford to live on my own unless I wanted to live paycheck by paycheck with no savings in the city I am. So in a way I feel that I should be making more.
I totally agree, the problem is unchecked price gouging with no oversight. yes wages are stagnant but a complete lack of rent control and other progressive policies with utilities, healthcare, taxes etc. for lower/middle income people is making almost any 'regular job' salary just an allowance until we end up homeless, sick and dead.
let's be honest, two workers at same place and same job, one of them gets paid more.... guess he was smart enough to ask for more money before starting the job
what does "work" have to do with how much you are paid? the pay is between you and the person paying you, and what you agree to do for that money
the person making a million dollars was smart enough to convince someone to pay him a million dollars...
this isn't how life works and you know it. stop trying to force something that doesn't exist. effort is only defined by what the outcome is, if you have to spend more time making something, you still end up with the same thing everyone else does. you just took longer, that doesn't mean you put in more effort
If the MW community can use unconventional tactics, or bend the rules to increase their wages, that's faar more efficient for them as a whole than all of them "upping their skills", while only having enough empty positions to accomodate a fraction of them.
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Hard work can be physical or mental. 
