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I've seen those people who refuse to help themselves, too. I'm related to one of them. But not everyone is going to be like that and that's all I want people to remember.
I guess I'm just a little sensitive about it right now because so many people focus in on what I'm doing right now at this point in my life and say I'm not doing anything to improve myself, or say I didn't do enough to help myself earlier in life. But those people aren't seeing the times I did pull myself up and the hard work that I did do to get myself out of a hole, only to get knocked down again.
People see you at the time you're knocked down and they assume it's a permanent thing when the truth is, it takes time to work yourself out of poverty. It's not a "one day you're on the streets and make a decision to not be on the streets, and then the next day you're living in a house" type of thing. It can take years and years of work and effort to get to where others would think you're successful, but in the meantime, people consider you unsuccessful or unmotivated anytime you're not at the peak of success, even if you're actually working towards it.
It's frustrating dealing with that.
I understand, and I do apologize for being a bit insensitive. I think it shows more character to work your way up than for it to be handed to you. Good on you, Rodentraiser! Hard work always pays off, in one form or another.
Actually, I was pretty close. https://nces.ed.gov/fastfacts/display.asp?id=66 shows that ed spending per pupil is $12,509. So I was a bit high, but not too bad considering I wrote my original post from memory, without looking it up.
I found $10,700 in 2013, which is still higher than I ever thought. I know that where my kids went to school it was MUCH less. I'm probably not asking google the right question(s).
I don’t really understand your rant, given that I was correct in the first place. You seem to think that providing a taxpayer funded public education for K-12 students is something new. I am not proposing anything different, and I am not trying to increase your taxes. I am simply pointing out current practice.
Going back to my original point, education is a good thing, it benefits society as a whole, and requiring young parent(s) to pay current expenditure rather than apportioning costs across all tax payers is impractical.
You are entitled to our opinion of course.
You were saying that education should be free or nearly free. I was asking, who's going to pay for it? Thats all.
I do need to apologize if I sound a bit "pi$$Y", I'm not. I see it as a discussion(come to an agreement) and not an argument(to prove someone wrong).
I've seen those people who refuse to help themselves, too. I'm related to one of them. But not everyone is going to be like that and that's all I want people to remember.
I guess I'm just a little sensitive about it right now because so many people focus in on what I'm doing right now at this point in my life and say I'm not doing anything to improve myself, or say I didn't do enough to help myself earlier in life. But those people aren't seeing the times I did pull myself up and the hard work that I did do to get myself out of a hole, only to get knocked down again.
People see you at the time you're knocked down and they assume it's a permanent thing when the truth is, it takes time to work yourself out of poverty. It's not a "one day you're on the streets and make a decision to not be on the streets, and then the next day you're living in a house" type of thing. It can take years and years of work and effort to get to where others would think you're successful, but in the meantime, people consider you unsuccessful or unmotivated anytime you're not at the peak of success, even if you're actually working towards it.
It's frustrating dealing with that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Humble and Kind
I understand, and I do apologize for being a bit insensitive. I think it shows more character to work your way up than for it to be handed to you. Good on you, Rodentraiser! Hard work always pays off, in one form or another.
Hard work is oftentimes necessary to prosper (and don't get me wrong... working hard is good so long it's not taken overboard to detriments to other vital factors), but it's no longer sufficient. You can work hard at a MW job, at your own restaurant, or even in a so-called "middle wage job", and can still end up in poverty. You also need to be smart about it. Unfortunately, the majority of the world are not destined for great things. We'd like to think that hard work should be enough for people to make out a decent living. They're not living the high life, and if they REALLY want that iPhone X, they'll need to budget away from somewhere else, but the basics are covered for without living in squalor.
I agree with the answer I linked to... in this world, you get ahead by "becoming the exploiter", not being the one doing the work. With the former, you basically get others to build your wealth. With the latter, it doesn't always have to be a bad thing (as some jobs in the US provide more security and less risk than business owners face), except in many particular cases, they're hardly getting paid a fair wage (not to mention with Foxcon employees, they put up suicide nets, so there's Literally no way out).
As parents always want an easier life for their kids than they did, I'm almost willing to bet that if they had the choice between 2 extremes for their kids... grow up spoiled where the only real concern is not blowing their yearly budget on buying too many Ferraris and Lamborghinis, vs. growing up disabled and working 3 to 8 times as hard as your typical American, but only being rewarded barely enough to keep their heads out of the waterlines of poverty... they'd choose the former.
You were saying that education should be free or nearly free. I was asking, who's going to pay for it? Thats all.
I do need to apologize if I sound a bit "pi$$Y", I'm not. I see it as a discussion(come to an agreement) and not an argument(to prove someone wrong).
I do wish you a Merry Christmas, Fishbrains.
H&K
Merry Christmas �� right back at you. It’s all good on tone.
Yes, I do support free public education, and we do it now for K12. In fact, we do it pretty efficiently, as private schools tend to cost more than the public expenditures.
We also subsidize higher ed, although not as much. My personal stance is that it should be free, or close to free, for anybody. Although there would be a cost for this, it would be somewhat moderated by additional economic activity/ earning power
Merry Christmas �� right back at you. It’s all good on tone.
Yes, I do support free public education, and we do it now for K12. In fact, we do it pretty efficiently, as private schools tend to cost more than the public expenditures.
We also subsidize higher ed, although not as much. My personal stance is that it should be free, or close to free, for anybody. Although there would be a cost for this, it would be somewhat moderated by additional economic activity/ earning power
what do they gain out of it?
free college, and then what? they somehow magically get jobs that let them wave around their piece of paper?
what's the goal of free college? they should have been educated enough to become independent adults through the k-12 system. why tack on college to it?
govt isn't in the business to make sure people are employed, if they were, they would employ them directly
free college, and then what? they somehow magically get jobs that let them wave around their piece of paper?
what's the goal of free college? they should have been educated enough to become independent adults through the k-12 system. why tack on college to it?
govt isn't in the business to make sure people are employed, if they were, they would employ them directly
An educated populace. Throughout the world there are strong correlations between education and earning power. People with more education have more flexibility in the type of jobs they can do, and they can start more businesses.
Look at this country in the 1950s. We had a tremendous economic boom after the GI Bill brought many to higher ed. Yes, there were other factors and it is complicated, but education helps.
We talk about automation a lot. One thing that cannot be automated for the foreseeable future is creativity. One of the best ways to be creative is to be trained in the arts.
Although I do not know if you are an advocate of this particular thought, we see many republicans support tax cuts on the demonstrably faulty premise that they will drive economic activity sufficient to pay for themselves. Yet we know that educated people make more, on average, than uneducated people. We also know that repetitive, entry level jobs are being eliminated. Doesn’t it make sense to give our citizens the ability to adapt to the new world? Can you come up with a better method?
Doesn’t it make sense to give our citizens the ability to adapt to the new world? Can you come up with a better method?
yes, expect parents to actually be parents, so educators can actually educate...
k-12 is enough for an educated society, you can't teach people everything, at 18, they know enough to go out and learn on their own. problem is too many 18 year olds lack the skills to go out into the world on their own
Quote:
An educated populace. Throughout the world there are strong correlations between education and earning power.
EU countries tend to have free/cheaper college and most of their earning power isn't higher than the US... I agree that education is need, but "more" education doesn't make people smarter, excess education is like anything else, it spills out and is wasted
yes, expect parents to actually be parents, so educators can actually educate...
k-12 is enough for an educated society, you can't teach people everything, at 18, they know enough to go out and learn on their own. problem is too many 18 year olds lack the skills to go out into the world on their own
So your solution is to keep doing something that we know doesn’t work, hoping for better results? While at the same time not doing something that we know does work.
I understand, and I do apologize for being a bit insensitive. I think it shows more character to work your way up than for it to be handed to you. Good on you, Rodentraiser! Hard work always pays off, in one form or another.
Take care and have a Merry Christams!
H&K
I don't think you're insensitive at all, so no need to apologize. I mean, you said you understand and most people can't even do that.
You have a great Christmas too!
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