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I'm worth what I agreed to work for, if I agree to help someone move for a pizza/beer, then that's what I'm expecting when I'm done moving the items
If I agreed to work for $100/hr, I expect to be paid that.
but my work for the pizza/beer or $100 will be the same quality because what I agreed to do was made with the intention that I wouldn't half-*ss it and would do the job as best as I can. If my "best" isn't good enough quality for what I want, they can always turn me down and find someone else
why do people think they would be worth what someone else "offers" to pay?
If someone thinks they are worth $15 (ala those burger flippers), they can look for someone who agrees their burgers are worth it. But don't agree to $7 then do a **** job and cry about it
Well, you could turn that around and say "why do employers think someone else would work for less than what they're asking for?"
As a freelancer, I can set my own prices. Sometimes I set a price for a project and then halfway through, I realize that I've grossly underestimated the time/effort involved. I do finish the project for that price, but if that same client asks for another similar project, I say, "I will need to charge you $X this time." If they ask why the price has gone up, I'm honest. They can decide to pay the difference or they can decide to find someone else; both scenarios are fine with me.
As long as someone is paying the minimum wage, then that's fine; the employees are free to either work for that price or leave and the employer will need to find someone else. But the point is not individual burger-flippers asking individual employers to pay more. It's asking the government to raise the minimum wage to the equivalent of what it was 40 years ago to keep up with inflation. It should have been rising all along, but it wasn't.
Probably because its impossible to survive in todays economy making $7.50 an hour. That’s just above $15000 a year, and is way below the poverty level. Even $15 an hour is very low wages in todays economy.
I'm curious.
If minimum wage was raised by $5 (which is about 50% what it is now), what about all those who are making $15 an hour now with college degrees in entry level specialized positions? They won't get a $7.50/hour raise. They will be making the same as those in positions that do not require special skills or education. Is this fair?
I'm very open to hearing differing opinions without getting into an argument.
What do you think YOU'RE worth?
I'd like this to be an open discussion with no attacks or party-blaming (dems/reps)
In the current economy at about $9-10 an hour as minimum wage, I'd say I'm probably worth $21 an hour.. With a specialized masters and a license to practice therapy. Second year out of school.
I don't know if I can gauge what my worth is. I'm currently still working on my college degrees in HIT/IT and I currently make 15$ an hour, working in an Information Systems department at a large corporation. I'm just a contract worker though. Doubt I'll be able to get anything close to 15$ until after I graduate, although I have had my eye on a permanent position that I had been recruited for a few months prior that starts at $14.84, but who knows if there will still be availability.
Only a few years ago, when the minimum wage was around $7-$8 per hour, one could buy a decent hamburger for $2-3, a gallon of milk for $1.50 and see a movie for $3-5. Now, with the minimum wage between $11-$15, the same hamburger costs $5-$8, the milk is now $3-$4 and a movie is $8-$15!
The question many fail to address in these "what are you worth" discussions is, "How much are people able/willing to pay for a hamburger, a gallon of milk or a movie?"
Raising the minimum wage is never going to solve the cost of living problem, for those making minimum wage.
States and localities can impose a higher minimum wage than the Feds within their jurisdictions, if they see fit to do so. That way, employers in higher population & COL areas (like NYC & LA) have to pay at least the locally-mandated higher minimum wage, rather than the lower Federal rate.
/thread
A higher minimum wage benefits giant mega corporations which can absorb that cost. Many smaller to mid sized businesses in flyover country would simply fold having to have a $15 minimum wage. Raise it to $8 and leave it to the states if they want to go higher then that.
Minimum wage is supposed to be a high school level wage. Adults shouldn't be accepting wages that low, and if they do, it's their own fault for rewarding the employer for screwing you over. Either that or the job is very low stress or has preferred daytime hours or you just want to help out the local mom and pop eatery or whatever... for a while I did support a $15 minimum wage until I actually began to think about what affect it would have on the local businesses to survive, especially the smaller ones.
There's no doubt wages haven't kept up with inflation for unskilled labor and even some skilled labor, but that's a matter of automation and outsourcing and will likely continue. On the other hand stuff like chothing and electronics haven't gone up in price that much either. Entertainment is dirt cheap. Clothing is pretty cheap if you buy at wal-mart which is what I do. Food and shelter, not so much. There's no law that says you have to have organic grass fed beef and vegetables year-round though. Think about what humans survived most of our evolution on and we have it pretty good. Buy rice and meat in bulk and do what you have to do. People these days tend to be a bit spoiled in my opinion in what they think they are entitled to have to make life "worth living" .. well if you want it that badly, get a better job and earn more money. You don't have an inborn, God given "right" to eat at a sit down restaurant once a week or have steak and lobster.
I've written this a number of times but there's no way I'd ever hire anyone who was only worth $15/hour. My time is far too valuable to waste it supervising someone who is only worth $15.
If you feed the 1968 Federal minimum wage into the BLS inflation calculator, you get $10.25/hour in 2017 dollars. I'd be fine with that as the Federal minimum wage and then index it to inflation. Where I live, that's a little low. $12/hr would be the local cost of living adjustment. That's what the help wanted signs in the fast food joints are offering unless they're tip jobs. Go 50 miles to Boston, and even $15/hr is starvation wages.
I think everyone responsibly, reliably and efficiently doing a job society needs are worth a living wage and basic benefits while doing it. And by living wage, I mean they should be able to afford at least the low end of local housing and a realistic budget for standard monthly expenses ideally not just for one adult, but for one adult and one child. In reality, there are a great many jobs that are no where near minimum wage that still don't pay that. In my area that would require about $24,000 a year for a single adult but about $50,000 a year for an adult and a child. This may sound unmanageable but if our ultrawealthy were just a tad less so - i.e. if our income inequality were just equalized a bit, it would be entirely realistic. Our rich could still be billionaires, maybe just not as many times over. Here is a good guideline - https://www.thebalance.com/living-wage-3305771 It would be better to do that than not, because when people can't get a living wage, there are consequences that the public ends up paying down the line anyway, in many cases more than the living wage in the first place would have cost.
Only a few years ago, when the minimum wage was around $7-$8 per hour, one could buy a decent hamburger for $2-3, a gallon of milk for $1.50 and see a movie for $3-5. Now, with the minimum wage between $11-$15, the same hamburger costs $5-$8, the milk is now $3-$4 and a movie is $8-$15!
The question many fail to address in these "what are you worth" discussions is, "How much are people able/willing to pay for a hamburger, a gallon of milk or a movie?"
Raising the minimum wage is never going to solve the cost of living problem, for those making minimum wage.
Nope, shutting down free trade and setting tarrifs based on some kind of quality of life/cost of living index as well as shutting down work visa's for all the most dire circumstance's would make minimum wage not needed anymore. the drugged out druggies would not be able to survive and people willing to work would make real money because the ownership class could not leverage slave labor. It would be win win.
Some stuff would be automated but mostly jobs that suck and with H1B's no longer taking jobs people could then apply for and actually get good jobs (unless your the burned out druggie).
Why do you think Trump is doing every thing BUT implementing the across the board 45% tarrif (or higher if needed) with China and only paying lip service to completely shutting down H1B (and all other sneaky slave visas)? Because those 2 things are what the elite leverage the most in order to develop assets cheap while charging a premium to US citizens, because people don't want to live like 3rd worlders so they pay it .... for now.
Location: Live:Downtown Phoenix, AZ/Work:Greater Los Angeles, CA
27,606 posts, read 14,619,501 times
Reputation: 9169
Quote:
Originally Posted by pittsflyer
Nope, shutting down free trade and setting tarrifs based on some kind of quality of life/cost of living index as well as shutting down work visa's for all the most dire circumstance's would make minimum wage not needed anymore. the drugged out druggies would not be able to survive and people willing to work would make real money because the ownership class could not leverage slave labor. It would be win win.
Some stuff would be automated but mostly jobs that suck and with H1B's no longer taking jobs people could then apply for and actually get good jobs (unless your the burned out druggie).
Why do you think Trump is doing every thing BUT implementing the across the board 45% tarrif (or higher if needed) with China and only paying lip service to completely shutting down H1B (and all other sneaky slave visas)? Because those 2 things are what the elite leverage the most in order to develop assets cheap while charging a premium to US citizens, because people don't want to live like 3rd worlders so they pay it .... for now.
We get cheaper goods thanks to free trade. Do you want your smart phone to triple in cost thanks to a tariff?
Location: San Ramon, Seattle, Anchorage, Reykjavik
2,254 posts, read 2,741,137 times
Reputation: 3203
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prickly Pear
I make just under $20/hr and I find that reasonable given age, skills and qualifications, but I cannot afford to live on my own unless I wanted to live paycheck by paycheck with no savings in the city I am. So in a way I feel that I should be making more.
Truth be told everyone needs to be making more money, including minimum wage. But the lower and middle class all need pay raises. We are the groups that has seen stagnant wage growth yet we are seeing record productivity numbers and a giant GDP. That clearly is not getting to us...
As far as the housing argument goes, make these laws:
1) You can only own one property OR your second property being subjected to a huge, huge tax. Something needs to be done to curb people using real estate to grow their finances so people can get shelter which we all agree is a basic need. Many food staples have caps because they are considered needs, why not housing?
2) Only American citizens can OWN (own, you can still rent) land in the United States.
3) Ban services like AirBnB from main residences (exceptions for guest houses or ADUs).
That should fix that real quick. If you can make the tax policy so unfriendly for people who own more than one property, then that opens so much more supply so people don't have to rent for the rest of their life if they don't have to. It also gets foreign billionaires out of our real estate market. Also limit AirBnB to accessory units will still give housing supply without interfering with the rental market in a significant way, though as long as AirBnB exists it will interfere with the housing market.
While you're at it build big concrete apartment buildings and make everyone live there, comrade.
Want to have a nicer place to live? Get a better job, endure the commute, move to a cheaper city. If you have a job that doesn't pay but you stay in a high cost of living area that's your choice.
Everyone seems to think they have a 'right' to live in SF, LA, Seattle, Boston, NY, Vancouver, Toronto, or wherever. You don't. There's a whole swath of the US and Canada with a super low cost of living. You can do your same job, most likely at the same wage, and live comfortably in these locations. But so often people say that they just couldn't live there. Apparently you can't afford to live here either.
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