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If you want we can write a PhD thesis on the origin of manners. For the moment it suffices to say that as a general rule women are smaller and less strong than men I'm not going to give the put the woman to a physical test on a one-to-one basis in order to evaluate her strength. I'm sure there are retired men who could punch the lights out of me, but I still apply to them the common courtesy rules regarding elderly people. I actually hold doors for men too - that is I hold the door until he gets a hold of it himself as opposed to hit him in the face with it.
Maybe I'm reading you wrong, but you come across as a representative of the tiresome "oppressed man". When you're not complaining about holding doors, you're complaining because people don't compliment men on their legs.
Well yeah I hold the door for people too if they're coming just behind me. I'm talking about those who rush in front of ladies just to open the door, which you don't really see today anyway. People here would think that very strange behaviour anyway.
Holding doors open for people because they are old and frail is different from holding a door open for a young, fit young woman just because she's got a vagina.
No harm but I hold a door open as a mark of respect. Not for sex..
What's the etiquette in the Netherlands concerning giving up your seat in public transport to elderly people or pregnant women?
The etiquette is to give up your seat. A few weeks ago i was in Amsterdam and we took the tram to go to the theater. An older women comes in, and three people stand up and offer their seat to the women.
Quote:
Originally Posted by hobbesdj
They probably are "blunt" and "straightforward" and tell the elderly or pregnant woman to go screw herself!
Now that's rude.
Last edited by cattledog69; 03-09-2014 at 01:09 AM..
I'm just going to talk about countries/cultures that I an familiar with. There may be different interpretations of what being polite is, but I do not think all countries are polite and well mannered.
1. Americans are very polite people, except in big cities on the East Coast. They say please, thank you, etc... A lot.
2. Mexicans are also very polite and well mannered people. We are taught from a very young age to have utmost respect for elders, and say please and thank you too often, which leads me to the next country...
3. Spaniards are not very polite people and can be very blunt about things to the point of being rude. I was told by some people that I said please and thank you too much and that it was unnecessary. They will not hold back with opinions. I lived there and had to get used to that!
4. UK- very polite and well mannered.
5. Brazilians. Very nice and polite people.
6. Japanese very polite and well mannered.
7. Vietnamese: a little mean and boorish sometimes. I lived in a Vietnamese community, the ladies would cut all the time in line and sometimes took things out of my hands at farmers markets! Lol I think their culture is just more serious.
8. Italians. Very rude, conceited people. They think too much of themselves and act outright rude often. I was yelled at for asking directions and for not ordering a train ticket in correct Italian. This was unacceptable. Well at least in Rome.
9. French. Very nice and well mannered IF you speak French.
10. Germany and Nordic countries. Nice people, albeit a little aloof and cold if you don't get to know them well.
11. Saudis- pretty nice respectful people.
12. Iraquis- generally polite people, though they can be a bit rude if they want to be.
Last edited by rosa surf; 03-09-2014 at 05:31 PM..
I'm just going to talk about countries/cultures that I an familiar with. There may be different interpretations of what being polite is, but I do not think all countries are polite and well mannered.
1. Americans are very polite people, except in big cities on the East Coast. They say please, thank you, etc... A lot.
2. Mexicans are also very polite and well mannered people. We are taught from a very young age to have utmost respect for elders, and say please and thank you too often, which leads me to the next country...
3. Spaniards are not very polite people and can be very blunt about things to the point of being rude. I was told by some people that I said please and thank you too much and that it was unnecessary. They will not hold back with opinions. I lived there and had to get used to that!
4. UK- very polite and well mannered.
5. Brazilians. Very nice and polite people.
6. Japanese very polite and well mannered.
7. Vietnamese: a little mean and boorish sometimes. I lived in a Vietnamese community, the ladies would cut all the time in line and sometimes took things out of my hands at farmers markets! Lol I think their culture is just more serious.
8. Italians. Very rude, conceited people. They think too much of themselves and act outright rude often. I was yelled at for asking directions and for not ordering a train ticket in correct Italian. This was unacceptable. Well at least in Rome.
9. French. Very nice and well mannered IF you speak French.
10. Germany and Nordic countries. Nice people, albeit a little aloof and cold if you don't get to know them well.
11. Saudis- pretty nice respectful people.
12. Iraquis- generally polite people, though they can be a bit rude if they want to be.
Ditto about Vietnamese, time after time people would cut in line. Saying 'sorry' and 'thankyou' doesn't really seem as big a thing there.
This a great of example of how rudeness is defined by culture. Yes, the Dutch have the reputation of being rude, and the examples offered appear extremely rude (not straightforward or blunt). But like you say, the Dutch don't consider it rude. It is all a matter of culture.
The examples i mentioned were not to picture the differences in language. More to scetch a picture of some common misunderstandings. Altough i think the example of the two women is kind of a language issue. When some one is looking fat in a too tight dress we say straight up it makes you look fat. We call that "recht toe, recht aan" (something like straight to the face). So i think this is kind of blund, yes. But we don't say you are fat. That's a big difference
now, the Metro or tram, maybe a bad example 'cos everybody just hates that place and just start acting stupid. And this is typical behavior for the metro and big crowded cities in general.
In the Netherlands it's a big difference where you live. I've lived in a few cities most of my life and now live in a tiny little place with nearly 400 people and the difference is uge. People greet you on the streets, say hello, goodmorning, have a nice day etc. wich you won't find in the bigger cities.
I'm just going to talk about countries/cultures that I an familiar with. There may be different interpretations of what being polite is, but I do not think all countries are polite and well mannered.
1. Americans are very polite people, except in big cities on the East Coast. They say please, thank you, etc... A lot.
2. Mexicans are also very polite and well mannered people. We are taught from a very young age to have utmost respect for elders, and say please and thank you too often, which leads me to the next country...
3. Spaniards are not very polite people and can be very blunt about things to the point of being rude. I was told by some people that I said please and thank you too much and that it was unnecessary. They will not hold back with opinions. I lived there and had to get used to that!
4. UK- very polite and well mannered.
5. Brazilians. Very nice and polite people.
6. Japanese very polite and well mannered.
7. Vietnamese: a little mean and boorish sometimes. I lived in a Vietnamese community, the ladies would cut all the time in line and sometimes took things out of my hands at farmers markets! Lol I think their culture is just more serious.
8. Italians. Very rude, conceited people. They think too much of themselves and act outright rude often. I was yelled at for asking directions and for not ordering a train ticket in correct Italian. This was unacceptable. Well at least in Rome.
9. French. Very nice and well mannered IF you speak French.
10. Germany and Nordic countries. Nice people, albeit a little aloof and cold if you don't get to know them well.
11. Saudis- pretty nice respectful people.
12. Iraquis- generally polite people, though they can be a bit rude if they want to be.
It's still in transition both socially and economically. I've watched it change dramatically in both areas from the time it first opened its doors to the world, over 20 yrs. ago, to now. It's also relatively new to the tourist trade, and as such still ignorant in how to appropriately interact with tourists. Most of the locals the average tourists meet are uneducated, with most merchants and vendors being the worst. It doesn't help that many people in VN are becoming more and more materialistic and greedy, as Western capitalism exports its rabid consumer culture full force - with all its attendant social ills. That said, I've also met kind, honest, friendly, and thoughtful locals throughout the country. Context is important. But, LOL, many of those communist folks can be a bit hardened, for sure.
The market story reminded me of the time an Italian lady in Siracusa shockingly slapped my hand and berated me in Italian, when I attempted to pick up a tomato to inspect at a local farmers market. Unbeknownst to me, you are not suppose to touch any produce, but instead let the merchant decide which to give you. But I also remember the nice food cart vendor in Florence giving me a large slice of polenta for free because I had never had it before.
Ahh, the joys and tribulations of cultural differences during travels abroad.
I wanted to add that extreme poverty, coupled with tremendous suffering and loss brought on by years and years of non-stop wars (China, France, Japan, US), will produce the tough, hardened, no-nonsense (rude) traits you see in VN.
I wanted to add that extreme poverty, coupled with tremendous suffering and loss brought on by years and years of non-stop wars (China, France, Japan, US), will produce the tough, hardened, no-nonsense (rude) traits you see in VN.
Yeah I figured it has to do with that, I do know there are usually deeper reasons for the way people act. Now that I think about it people are not very friendly in remote Native American Mexican villages. They have been repressed and abused by authorities so outsiders 'visiting' is not seen as a good thing. I exp erienced that in Oaxaca.
I have to add that I grew up with many Vietnamese friends so I got used to it. Lol I still love my Vietnamese peeps!
Italians on the other hand have no reason to be so rude to tourists. I have nothing against anyone, but I will not return there.
A lot of it is perception and cultural. For Canadians, unaccustomed to an American server saying " uh huh " instead of
" you're welcome " after thanking them, it sounds dismissive and rude, even though that server isn't actually being rude.
Conversely, a Canadian server saying " you're welcome " may just be on auto pilot and it may not be heart felt and actually to the observant sound rude.
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