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Puerto Rico culture is a culturally foreign place, this is simply undeniable. I've been there three times and it felt like a different country on every level, way more so than Hawaii and Miami. For example, for Americans, Spanish is a foreign language like French or German. Honestly if Puerto Rico is "American", then Canadians are American, Australians are American, the English are American, and the Scottish are American. All of these cultures are far more similar to American culture than Puerto Rican culture is.
The difference between Puerto Rico and these other places (other than the obvious cultural and linguistic differences) is that Puerto Rico was conquered by the U.S., made a colony, and as a result given American citizenship. The fact that Puerto Ricans have served in the U.S. military is absolutely fantastic, and I proudly salute each and every one of them. however the harsh reality is that none of that makes them culturally American. French Canadians served in the British military in World War 1 and World War II, does that seriously make them British? Of course not. Puerto Ricans can move to the U.S. and become Americans if they like, and many do so, but let's not minimize the uniqueness of Puerto Rican culture. Call it what you want, a commonwealth, a territory, but at the end of the day it's a colony from bygone era who's status was never resolved.
It's status has never been resolved since people keep voting for the status quo there all though statehood has been gaining ground. The Federal Government has also not pushed for statehood either. It's going to become the 51st state sooner or later since people have been moving more and more towards statehood but it's going to be a long process unless more momentum is gained for making Puerto Rico the 51st state.
Puerto Rico culture is a culturally foreign place, this is simply undeniable. I've been there three times and it felt like a different country on every level, way more so than Hawaii and Miami. For example, for Americans, Spanish is a foreign language like French or German. Honestly if Puerto Rico is "American", then Canadians are American, Australians are American, the English are American, and the Scottish are American. All of these cultures are far more similar to American culture than Puerto Rican culture is.
The difference between Puerto Rico and these other places (other than the obvious cultural and linguistic differences) is that Puerto Rico was conquered by the U.S., made a colony, and as a result given American citizenship. The fact that Puerto Ricans have served in the U.S. military is absolutely fantastic, and I proudly salute each and every one of them. however the harsh reality is that none of that makes them culturally American. French Canadians served in the British military in World War 1 and World War II, does that seriously make them British? Of course not. Puerto Ricans can move to the U.S. and become Americans if they like, and many do so, but let's not minimize the uniqueness of Puerto Rican culture. Call it what you want, a commonwealth, a territory, but at the end of the day it's a colony from bygone era who's status was never resolved.
No matter what you say, I still consider myself an American, and so do ~50% of the island's population. What YOU feel about our feelings is irrelevant. We are American just like you, whether you believe it or not, or whether you like it or not. You are stuck with us, we're not going anywhere, just like African-Americans. Just because we don't speak English doesn't mean we're not American. But, I'll say it again and if I sound like an ass, oh well I don't care. Those of us that like to think we're American, get over it. You have no right or no monopoly and you're not any single authority on what constitutes "American". Just because YOU felt uncomfortable being somewhere that wasn't lily-white like some town near Hagerstown doesn't mean it wasn't a foreign country or a foreign culture.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cwa1984
It's status has never been resolved since people keep voting for the status quo there all though statehood has been gaining ground. The Federal Government has also not pushed for statehood either. It's going to become the 51st state sooner or later since people have been moving more and more towards statehood but it's going to be a long process unless more momentum is gained for making Puerto Rico the 51st state.
Ironically, it's the Republican Party that endorses statehood for Puerto Rico. Last time a vote came around again, the GOP, led by Virginia Fox (R-VA), wanted to remove the Commonwealth option from the referendum and just have a simple statehood or independence vote, but the move was blocked by the Democratic Party, and the referendum wasn't held in the end. Almost half of Puerto Ricans support statehood, there's a very small minority that are never sure and vote status quo to be safe
Not only that, but we have the highest per capita rate of veterans as well. There are WWII and Korean War vets in my family, but because our names aren't John Smith or Dave Darrenkamp we're not Real Americans™
To be fair though there is an element of the left wing that wants Puerto Rico to be an independent country viewing it as a way (if not the only way) to preserve the culture there. Which is ironic to me since it's an island that has been a part of the US for over a century and even today with mass media hasn't lost it's culture so I don't quite see how that argument is realistic.
But you still sound like a right-winger, which means my post has validity. Right-wing Americans don't consider anyone with a Spanish last name as "Real Americans" anyway. What do you know about Puerto Rico? Nothing at all. We're not a foreign country, and never were. The fact that you refer to us as that means you are out of touch on the subject. No wonder you hold opinions like you do. Just another Anglo that thinks the U.S. is "his" country
For god's sake, have some dignity. Are you really so utterly colonized that you are willing to disown yourself for a small token recognition from a few Americans? There are colonial mentalities, and then there is what you are displaying. Puerto Rican culture is a beautiful, unique, phenomenon. Be proud of it, embrace it.
To be fair though there is an element of the left wing that wants Puerto Rico to be an independent country viewing it as a way (if not the only way) to preserve the culture there. Which is ironic to me since it's an island that has been a part of the US for over a century and even today with mass media hasn't lost it's culture so I don't quite see how that argument is realistic.
And we're not going to lose our culture or language. I don't want it to. I'm ok with the way things are right now. Having lived in both "worlds", I identify with both.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PBeauchamp
For god's sake, have some dignity. Are you really so utterly colonized that you are willing to disown yourself for a small token recognition from a few Americans? There are colonial mentalities, and then there is what you are displaying. Puerto Rican culture is a beautiful, unique, phenomenon. Be proud of it, embrace it.
Uhhh, which is why I told the other guy that I'm American whether he thinks so or not. Anglos don't have a monopoly on what is or isn't American, just like Anglos in Canada don't have the right to cast judgement on Québécois who want to consider themselves Canadian but remain speaking French. It's the same issue with you guys as it is with us. The only difference is, you're a full province of Canada, not a territory. I'm not groveling, if I was groveling I would refuse to speak Spanish anywhere in the US and act completely like a gringo in the hopes I'm "accepted". I don't have low self esteem like that.
When I think of Puerto Rico the USA is the last thing I think of then there's the reminder that ''oh isn't Puerto Rico somehow in the US''
People say that about the US Virgin Islands as well. About 3/4 of the population is black, they drive on the left, and they speak English Creole, ans their accent is very similar to Jamaica's. I guess they're not American then either
No matter what you say, I still consider myself an American, and so do ~50% of the island's population. What YOU feel about our feelings is irrelevant. We are American just like you, whether you believe it or not, or whether you like it or not. You are stuck with us, we're not going anywhere, just like African-Americans. Just because we don't speak English doesn't mean we're not American. But, I'll say it again and if I sound like an ass, oh well I don't care. Those of us that like to think we're American, get over it. You have no right or no monopoly and you're not any single authority on what constitutes "American". Just because YOU felt uncomfortable being somewhere that wasn't lily-white like some town near Hagerstown doesn't mean it wasn't a foreign country or a foreign culture
OK, unbrainwashed, you are getting really mad, and honestly for me, this isn't an emotional subject. If you need to imply I am a "right-winger" (nope) or that I am racist (I'm mixed, there goes that theory), in order to not find Puerto Ricans American, that it shows just how far you are reaching.
I seriously doubt that ~50% of Puerto Ricans consider themselves Americans in anything other than a technical way, although I don't expect you to provide statistics. I am willing to bet that when the U.S. basketball team plays the Puerto Ricans in the Olympics that the inhabitants of San Juan don't root for the Americans. Either way, it doesn't matter to me. You seem to think I am a die-hard "Puerto Ricans aren't American" activist, but honestly, I literally could not care less, it's not an emotional subject and I have zero to prove.
For me it's like, "Puerto Ricans think they are American? Sounds good to me". Pretty much it's only a plus for the US in my book, like a notch on the bed. But I'm not going to patronize you and make it sound like most American people would seriously consider a Puerto Rican American, unless they are one of the Puerto Ricans who immigrated to New York and are assimilating into American culture. And yeah, I know you are mad I said "immigrate", but I have a high enough opinion of Puerto Rico that I am not going to downplay it's culture and identity and pretend it's just another piece of America. You and I both know if you go around and ask your Pennsylvania neighbors in York, Pittsburgh, Erie, Lancaster, Allentown or Scrancton (pick your place) that most won't consider Puerto Ricans Americans in anything other than a "technical" way, they will consider them Puerto Ricans, just like they consider the French French and the Greeks Greek.
Just because we don't speak English doesn't mean we're not American.
Yes, it does. In any realistic way it absolutely does.
Quote:
Originally Posted by theunbrainwashed
But, I'll say it again and if I sound like an ass, oh well I don't care.
You wouldn't sound like an ass if what you are saying isn't utterly absurd.
Let me recap your beliefs:
1) Puerto Ricans are culturally Americans
2) The fact that Puerto Ricans speak another language has no effect on this
3) Only racists and Republicans believe otherwise
Your views denigrate American culture and reduce it to a void of nothingness, where language and traditions mean nothing. They also denigrate Puerto Rican culture, reducing the Puerto Rican nation to the most subservient of colonial conquests with nothing in the way of culture, language, or identity.
Quote:
Originally Posted by theunbrainwashed
Those of us that like to think we're American, get over it. You have no right or no monopoly and you're not any single authority on what constitutes "American"
Let me ask you, do you think Pennsylvanians have to react so vigorously to a such truths? Do "your people" from South Dakota have to defend themselves against "accusations" questioning their Americanness? I say this as a man who grappled for a long time with a neo-colonial identity. Do not reject yourself. Proudly come to the realization of your nation.
Quote:
Originally Posted by theunbrainwashed
And we're not going to lose our culture or language. I don't want it to. I'm ok with the way things are right now. Having lived in both "worlds", I identify with both.
Yes, with your current mentality you will without any question in the world lose your language and identity. How do you think Lousiana went from a unique French-speaking state to just another southern state? How do you think France went from a Gallic to a Latin-cultured land? How do you think the Wends of eastern Germany disappeared? You have a colonial thought process, which is completely understandable when we consider Puerto Rico's predicament. You don't have to be a rabid flag-waving independantiste, but at least have some dignity and respect for your nation. One can only imagine how many Cherokees or Lakota would exchange positions with you.
Quote:
Originally Posted by theunbrainwashed
Uhhh, which is why I told the other guy that I'm American whether he thinks so or not. Anglos don't have a monopoly on what is or isn't American, just like Anglos in Canada don't have the right to cast judgement on Québécois who want to consider themselves Canadian but remain speaking French. It's the same issue with you guys as it is with us. The only difference is, you're a full province of Canada, not a territory. I'm not groveling, if I was groveling I would refuse to speak Spanish anywhere in the US and act completely like a gringo in the hopes I'm "accepted". I don't have low self esteem like that.
It is not the same issue. I have never seen a modern-day Qubecois stooping to such a low level as I just witnessed. Such things were commonplace before the Quiet Revolution of the 1960's when we readily bowed to our Anglo masters and believed we were "Canadian". Few Quebecois would tell you that they are culturally the same thing as an anglo Canadian, let alone disregard their identity, language, culture, history, and traditions in a desperate bid to win favour from the anglo Canadians.
The Americans were generally the best and only line of defense against the disgusting phenomenon of 19th and 20th century European colonialism. They weren't perfect, and in the process they nagged a few colonies of their own. They were believed to be temporary, yet Puerto Rico became an unresolved case and to this day is still a US possession. Unlike what some of our European USA-haters will have you believe, Americans don't have a certain desire to eradicate your people. They have left the question to you. The important question is not about independence or statehood. The important question is about whether Puerto Ricans will decline into a pit of self-loathing or if they will proudly assert themselves. It is not up to Americans to empower you or accept Puerto Rican culture. It is up to Puerto Ricans to empower themselves.
That and the rest of Canada's history with Quebec is another reason why Canada doesn't try and get the land.
Canada probably doesn't even care as that place has no value of any sort and are just two irrelevant islands just off the coast of Newfoundland
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